Genetically modified perennials now available

That's quite alarming Dim, and for once from a credible source (Greenpeace). Although given that most commercially available pork now comes from Dutch 'super farms', I'm afraid I can't see any real future for pig farmers anyway.

 

If you can't understand people concerns about GM crops then you obviously haven't researched the subject at all.

You should go watch "The world according to Monsanto"

 

I am very skeptical about GM. In any case we have such a huge variety of stunningly beautiful plants from nature available to the gardener already, I can't see why dabbling with GM is necessary.

IMO that purplely carnation thing looks an abomination. it doesn't even look like it came from nature and it wouldn't get anywhere near my garden .... ever! If you want that kind of stuff in your garden, why not go the whole hog and buy those plastic flowers, they come in all colours and they are miraculously always in bloom

 

You're right, I haven't researched it much I must confess. But I have a good reason for this. Whenever a subject is emotive, as GM is, I tend to find it virtually impossible to find objective information.

Even if there was some objective info, I don't have a great enough understanding of the science to make sense of it. I suspect that's true of many people.

I presume this article 'The world according to Monsanto' is a Youtube video? Who made it? Will they tell me the truth in its entirety or will they give me just enough little nuggets to paint the picture they want me to see?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not pro-GM any more than I'm anti-GM. I'm not even indifferent. The word is ambivalent.

I'm glad that there are people that feel strongly one way or the other. If nobody felt strongly about anything, then I suspect the world would probably a slightly less pleasant place. I feel strongly about some stuff, just not GM. That's the only point I was trying to make on the subject.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1189345/


I can only show you the door, it is you who has to walk through it...

 

Its kinda like nuclear energy in my opinion, it will come with its beneffits but i also think that GM food could have a domino effect on the ecosystem and could end in total disaster. Normally we dont learn about the dangers of our new technologies untill its too late...

I agree with Fens its not needed, and if the only reason we need it is to feed the ever expanding population, then we should just concentrate more on population control.

 

here is a link to the full documentary of the 'world according to Monsanto'

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-world-according-to-monsanto/

watch it, then comment .... this documentary was initially banned from the USA .... it's an eye opener, it's a few years old now, and things have got a lot worse since then .... research and see who is on the board of directors etc

 

We seem to have gone from the GM as an issue of principle, to a political debate about one company.

There are many companies that I believe are dodgy. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that a large chemical company is dodgy. I need no convincing of that. However I am still not convinced either way whether it is a good or bad idea to make genetically modified plants. We've already knackered biodiversity through selective breeding. Next time you walk through a public park and see the large floral displays, just pause and see how many bees and butterflies are on it, and then tell me that GM is any worse than what is already going on on a massive scale, that nobody bats an eyelid at.

 

it's not a political debate about 1 company .... it's a debate about reality which is happening right now ...

and if you have read the facts and still feel the way you do (thats it's not a problem), I am deeply disappointed in you

but what the heck! ... it's only a forum and we all don't think the same way

 

The main argument I've seen put forward so far to convince me that GM is bad, is that I should watch a documentary about a company called Monsanto.

That's like saying, we should ban breathing because its dangerous, and substantiating that by directing us to a documentary about the air quality in Mexico city.

Network Rail has recently been found guilty and fined for their negligence that led to a terrible tragedy. Should we campaign for the abolition of railways?

Monsanta aside, why is GM any worse ecologically than filling our gardens with plants that have been selectively bred for a given set of characteristics, that as a result have become completely worthless to the fauna that depend on flowers for their, and our continued survival?

 

I have watched it Dim and once again I feel a darkness... but, I feel powerless to intervene -that Pandora's box again. Maybe, we as a species are on a self destruction mission and it is our time to to be replaced by something else. Whether we like it or not I think it's too late. So, back to the gate,to lean on and view the meadow before me whilst I can.

 

You can not discuss GM without discussing Monsanto. When technology is so powerful it can kill the whole planet then banning one company can be all the difference.

There's a lot of evidence to show that GM crops cause sterility in mice and are killing off the bees.

 

Ok, I'll concede that. But I'm not sure how you ban a company if it is acting within the law.

There's a lot more evidence that bees are dying because we're destroying their habitat through monoculture planting regimes (non-GM, extremely common practice).

There is also a lot of evidence that bees, and indeed many pollinating insects, rely increasingly on private gardens for refuge, yet increasingly we fill our private gardens with plants that through selective breeding, produce flowers that are of little or no use to our pollinators.

We even pay our local authorities to destroy the local ecology, some of our council tax is spent on making the local parks all manicured with no wild flowers and lots of sterile or almost sterile flowers, with the loads of the same species planted en-masse and not a single bee or butterfly to be seen.

We eradicate dandelions, clovers and daisies from our lawns, and take drastic action at the first sign of one leaf of one plant being nibbled.

We do all these things and more that we know are wiping out our insects, and we turn a blind eye. We know that if not for honeybees we'd lose something like 70% of our food crops, and most of the rest would be lost if we lost all our pollinating insects, yet we continue to focus our attention on the large corporations that we know will do whatever they can to make a profit, a profit that they can only make if we continue to fund them.

I don't believe Monsanto own all the land in the world. They don't own my gardens. If we want to make sure that the bees have somewhere to feed, to shelter and to breed, should we not focus on the more immediate matter at hand and look after our own little bits of land? And if we must fight anyone else, should we not be stomping up and down about wheat farmers using broad spectrum herbicides to keep wild flowers from appearing in their fields? Or should we not be having a go at the councils and insisting on more diversity in our local parks? When we browse the seed catalogues or the shelves of the nurseries, should we not just ignore all the flowers that offer little to wild life, so that it becomes unprofitable for them to stock such plants, forcing them to fill their shelves/catalogues with pollen/nectar rich flowers instead?

I'm not saying I support Monsanto or their patent applications. I just think its too easy to go on a crusade away from home, and completely overlook what's already been happening our own doorstep for years and years.

 

to sum it up, .... for me it's just a matter of perception ...

What could be easier than just giving the plants the raw materials that they need, and letting the microorganisms do all the work? (like they have always done)

I think the complex part is that humans had to concoct chemical fertilizers to use on the baron lifeless soil, and in doing so, also covered the soil with pesticides, which systematically depleted most of the essential trace minerals that every living thing needs to survive.....

Then, as a bonus, these chemical fertilizers leach into our waterways and cause algae blooms causing dead zones and red tides.

And ....if that is not enough...we go back to that same land, and plant GMOs that can be doused with herbicides and somehow live...or grow their own pesticide?...

these are the same genetically modified foods that have shown to cause sterility, and organ failure within a few generations to mammals which were fed GMOs (fact).

...when the whole time, all that is needed is some rock dust, poopie soup, and some occasional rotted fish parts!

I'm just saying :WINK1: