David Cameron's new Benefits

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clueless1, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Freddy

    Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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    Maybe those claiming benefits should perform some social duties? I can't see any reason why benefits shouldn't/couldn't be 'earned'.
     
  2. Aesculus

    Aesculus Bureaucrat 34 (Admin)

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    They tried this, it worked out more expensive to have them do something then do nothing at all :doh:

    What annoys me is you get some people (I know a number of them) that will quite happily work voluntarily in a charity shop for 40hrs a week and live on incapacity benefits, my view is if you can do that many hours anywhere voluntarily then you are well enough to work!
     
  3. ClaraLou

    ClaraLou Total Gardener

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    Here in Medway, being a very, very young mum isn't rare. There is no longer any stigma in having a child without a permanent father on the scene and the girls cheerfully assume that the state will always provide. And of course it does, because no one is prepared to be mean to children. This is such a difficult problem. No one wants to go back to the days of 'fallen women' and their children dying on the streets. On the other hand, if the state removed the goodies, I'm pretty sure that the instances of teenage pregnancy would fall drastically. Living off benefits on a rough estate isn't my idea of heaven, but I think we have to admit that to a significant number of people it's seen as a career move. It ain't much, but it's better than living with your mum and working in Poundland.
     
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    • Scrungee

      Scrungee Well known for it

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      I've seen suggestions that wheelchair/mobility scooter users should have brooms fitted to the front of them, so they can perform a useful litter sweeping function whilst on the way to collect their disability benefits.
       
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      • Freddy

        Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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        A 'workhouse' then? I'll get my coat...:runforhills:
         
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        • HYDROGEN86

          HYDROGEN86 Head Gardener

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          That would be called "working" though Freddy, it would not go down well with those claiming.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            I see the same as Clare when off work.
            They take the older ones to school and then stand chatting for an hour with pushchair and younger one.
            Then its along to the bakers for a hot pie and another chat, complete with pushchair.

            By then its midday.........

            Then down the school, pick up the older sprog, grab a curry or fish and chips, and back to the tax payers flat to watch TV and shout at the kids.

            Its not much of a life, but it beats working for a living.
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              What happened to "chain gangs":biggrin:
               
            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              What a pain in the rear - I just typed a rather long post, and its disappeared!

              I'm compose it in Word and then try again - back in a minute!
               
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              • HYDROGEN86

                HYDROGEN86 Head Gardener

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                [​IMG]
                 
              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                Right, here it is - and although its long, I make no apology, as this is a matter that really winds me up.


                David Cameron is looking at this the wrong way up as far as I am concerned. Sure, I agree that reducing the welfare bill would only be beneficial, but that reduction cannot come at a human cost.

                As far as I am concerned, this whole mess started with Maggie Thatcher selling off the council housing stock. These were snapped up (quite rightly) by many people wanting to own their own property, and in most cases were subsequently sold on for huge profits. No replacements were built for those houses that were sold, with the private housing sector instead having to pick up the slack.

                This was great for those who had money to invest in property (ie, the richer people), but they were about the only winners.

                Back when councils had their own housing stocks, after the initial building costs, the only real costs they had was maintenance, and as such they had a way of controlling their costs.

                The move to using the private sector meant that cost spiralled for councils – if they have someone in need that they have to house, they now have either housing associations to pay (if they are lucky), and more often than not they are paying out for private rent from a private landlord; the other side to this rather nasty sword is that private rents went sky high for everyone (not just council tenants), simply because landlords could get away with asking for whatever they felt like.

                Roll forward to the current day, and the exorbitant rents remain, as does the critical shortage of decent affordable homes.

                For example, I am 36 years old with one child, and it looks increasingly likely that I will NEVER own my own home, and NEVER be able to get any sort of home that feels truly permanent, despite working full time for the last 21 years of my life (excluding 4 months early on following a redundancy);

                I earn a decent wage (just over £30k), which to some will sound like a lot – and to be fair, if I lived outside of the South East, it would be worth a hell of a lot more. However, just my rent and council tax alone are over £1200 a month, so you will understand how this isn’t such a lot after all.

                To buy a two-bedroom house similar to the one I live in now (fairly small), I would need a £50k deposit. The whole time I am paying rent at the level I am, I have no chance – especially when all the other expenses of family life are considered.

                Sure, I could save £100 a month if I ditched my broadband and TV package, and maybe even up that to £150 a month if we didn’t have mobile phones – so at that rate, it would take me 27 years to save a deposit! Besides, I work 7 days a week most weeks, so why the hell shouldn’t I have some of the creature comforts?

                The best of it is, I couldn’t actually give a monkeys about owning a property – however, I would love to have a home that felt truly permanent; we were forced to move last year (which cost us the best part of £5k all in) simply because our landlords were forced to sell the property we were living in by their bank.

                Sadly, housing associations and local councils do not want to know when it comes to people like me – both Mrs C and I work, we pay our way, and we are born and bred in this country – therefore, we are not eligible to rent a home at an affordable rate from the council/housing association.
                Now, if the government were to take a more radical approach, things could be so much better – think about it

                - Make a substantial investment in building good quality, good sized family homes in all areas of the country.

                - Then make sure that AT LEAST 60% of them are rented out to working people at a reasonable level, with the assurance that they can have that home for life.

                - Allow people to buy the homes they are renting, but sell them at a price where there is no loss or profit for the council/housing association

                - Any that are sold are to be replaced with a new building or a purchased property.


                This would achieve three things:

                - Unemployment reduced, particularly in the building trades, but almost certainly across the board (telecoms industry, power generation, new supermarkets, new bus routes etc)

                - The ability to control the costs associated with providing social housing, and having a rental income from at least 60% of the stock to assist.

                - Economy further boosted by the disposable income now able to be spent by those working and paying rent at a reasonable level.

                Sadly, as long as I have a hole in my rear, this will never happen – partly because of the capital investment that would be required, but mostly due to the fact that no politician or political party will ever have big enough gonads to make such a bold decision.
                 
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                • *dim*

                  *dim* Head Gardener

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                  If Cameron wants to save zillions of pounds, perhaps he should look at pulling the troops out of Afhanistan

                  it's costing a lot, is achieving absolutely nothing as it's another Vietnam ...
                   
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                  • clueless1

                    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                    I almost completely agree. The only trouble is the withdrawal has to be done in such a way that the baddies wont be able to claim it as a victory. The very last thing Britain needs is for every extremist organisation in the world to suddenly realise we're fallible.
                     
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                    • Bilbo675

                      Bilbo675 Total Gardener

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                      I am unfortunately on JSA (having worked for 17 years straight from school), I'm not proud of it and I am doing everything I can to find employment, I've sent over 200 spece letters with cvs out in the last 4/5 weeks just in the hope that someone somewhere has an opportunity for me to get a foot in the door, I keep toying with the idea of self employment.

                      Anyway, the vast majority of our benefits DO go on food and bills, we don't have 48" flat screen tv's, top of the range game consoles, I-phones, I-pads etc etc, we don't have a car either, we can't afford them, we manage without them and we don't try and live outside of our means and yet we are happy (would be happier with a job). These families that do have all that make us sick and yet we're often tarred with the same brush, but every case is different..
                       
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                      • blacksmith

                        blacksmith Gardener

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                        Thank you for printing my thoughts, also, most of the problems in Europe are based on the property collapse, houses are built for a fraction of the cost they sell for and nobody can afford to buy first time because of these prices. the problem is averything collapses if the prices drop, nobody can have a low paid job to work up from like I did as a boy because housing benefits come to more than a starting wage. It's not rocket science to see what this means.
                         
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