Hillsborough 15th April 1989

At the risk of getting a slap from Daisees, i'll close this thread pending staff review. Good point about discussing an on going legal matter Clueless1.

 

OK, thanks for calling me ignorant, but are we to believe the fans all stood in line waiting to enter and then entered in an orderly manner?

My reference to Bloody Sunday was only in the way that when we look back after many years it's very easy to say in hindsight, what should not have happened.

We know the events should not have taken place, but are we looking for someone to blame??
Or are we looking to find out what actually happened.

I just sometimes get the impression we are looking for the former.

 

This campaign, from its inception has been about finding out the truth and dispelling the lies told by the police in the aftermath.

The ground was unfit, the policing inadequate and the lies a disgrace. If as a result of this report some of those responsible for the disaster and the cover up are held accountable is that such a bad thing?

 

We wont know if there is or isnt anyone to blame untill we kow what exactly happened but we wont ever really know what happened if the police are covering up evidence and lying, so the answer is both, not one or the other. The way the police have behaved more than suggests that there mite be someone to blame...

 

Someone did this on purpose???????

Val

 

When are the documents about Heysel going to come out? Or are they firmly hidden by those connected with Liverpool?

 

Not that i know off. I did not say that though. Im sure chernobyl was an accident but are we ment to just say "ar well accidents happen, no point in pointing fingers or investigating the matter, it probably wont happen again lets all just move on eh" Or the BP oil spill or any other incident that results in death or disaster. Just because something was not planned to happen does not meen that someone has made a serious mistake Val, and then tried to hide that fact and just blame it on the victims instead.

 

Of course the disaster has to be investigated that goes without saying otherwise we would never learn anything from it and obviously serious mistakes were made, in a dreadful panic situation like this how could anyone function properly?? I just don't think it is fair to start blaming specific individuals for it.
Investigate and learn to ensure it never happens again.

Val

 

Actually, you could say a qualified yes to that.

1. The senior police officer on the scene allowed the Leppings Lane gate to be opened without ensuring there was any - not sufficient, any - marshalling of the crowds
2. when fans went to police to report there was overcrowding and people were getting injured, the police ignored them
3.when fans begged for gates to be opened onto the pitch the police ignored them
4. when fans broke down the fencing to allow people to escape onto the pitch, not only did the police declare a pitch invasion, they actually pushed fans back into the pen
5. police stood in front of people, only 5 feet away, who were turning blue and black and vomiting because they were being crushed and did nothing
6. ambulances stood outside the ground but weren't allowed in by the police because of their perceived 'pitch invasion'
7. fans who were trying to pull down hoardings to use for stretchers were beaten back and blocked

Is that enough?

Someone did this on purpose?
In effect, yes. Which is not to say they planned it and carried it out with malicious intent but an authority - the police - failed to prevent it happening, in not just one, not just two but many instances of gross incompetence and ineptitude. The police 'purposely' took no action to rescue, aid or bring succour to the injured and dying.

I'd say that was intentional, wouldn't you?

 

Pushing a wall on top of Juventus fans is more intentional than Hillsborough, imo, yet it's never mentioned.

 

Heysel was another tragedy however this one was fully investigated at the time. There was no cover up and 27 people were arrested, of which 14 were convicted.

It is interesting to note that Liverpool CEO at the time asked UEFA to choose another venue as he believed Heysel was unfit due to poor state of repair.

It is wrong to try and draw a parallel between the two disasters as the cause of Heysel was hooliganism. If they share any similarities it is inadequate crowd control and unfit stadiums.

 

Amen

 

Why should it?

 

It probably is in Italy ....

 

It was the south Yorkshire police, as the stadium is in Sheffield.

West Yorkshire police were by no means a model force (google 'david oluwale for an idea of what the force was like in the seventies/eighties). But it would be unfair to say that west yorks police were responsible here.