Non-lethal insecticide?

Hi.
I realise it is not common in mainstream growing. But an often heard riposte to vegetarians/vegans is that a vegetable diet kills more animals than meat, due to insecticides/pesticides, etc. I want to know if it is possible, even if only in theory, to grow fruit and veg without lethal pest control? I imagine it is much easier to control pests non-lethally in small-scale farming, ie vegetable patches and so so, than it is for large commercial concerns with acres of land?
I have heard of vegan farmers and even whole communities such as certain tribes, and the Jain people, who do not believe in killing animals for food. I don't always agree with Jains, but it would seem a huge inconsistency if they used lethal control when growing food. As a vegetarian myself I have always wondered about growing more of my own food, but do not wish to deliberately kill insects or other creatures.
So, is the use of non-lethal insecticides, and repellants etc, a known factor in food growing at all? Is it something that is possible to introduce on a wider scale, or more a theoretical possibility that is not really practised? I am interested specifically in insect-related control as this relates to a module I'm currently studying for a course, though other forms of pest control etc are also of interest.

Thanks.

 

Wotcha Simon,

Long time no see. Hope you been keeping well

Only insecticides I use are Beer and occasional limited use of slug pellets.

 

Hi JWK, hi Ziggy. Thanks. Actually I agree with you - I've no desire to use insecticides. It is more a theoretical question. Moreover, I am studying a course where one of the assignments involves using an insecticide and monitoring its effects. I want to avoid lethal substances and have told the tutor I do not wish to deliberately kill insects. One way round this would be to use a repellent of some kind - though I would have to find a plant with a genuine insect "problem" and not just randomly create one. However, I am not sure a repellent would really be described as an "insecticide" as things ending in "cide" usually involve killing, so I am rather stumped at the moment.

 

Haven't used any insecticides on my veg plot for years. I would if the crop was threatened significantly, but I haven't needed to.

 

Hi Simon , it`s all there provided by nature , many plants are able to keep insect away and not kill them.....In Thailand I`ve learned about lemon grass oil will repell every insect , while garlic will work with slugs and snail , I`ve used the same system for stop cats and work really well.
get lots of garlic , lemon grass .....use cinnamon , if you can orange peel and mint....boil it, mix with water and spay all you plants and veg. once a veek depend on rain

 

Again, I totally agree with the answers above. I only hope my college do as well, otherwise I will either have to fail the module or leave the course. It seems a strange task to set in this day and age, when organic and environmentally friendly, not to mention compassionate, gardening are more the norm

 

I don't use insecticides, because they kill good insects as well as the bad ones

why buy a chemical when mother natural can do it for free

 

Sounds to me like a very one sided view from whoever says such.

It seems to me that there are hard line vegetarians who are practically extremists, then there are hard line anti-veggy sorts who, not content with their own lifestyle choices, try to belittle others. Then there's the vast majority, who eat what they choose and accept that others also have the same freedom of choice.

The hardline carnivores (who are actually omnivores, but some people just aren't clever enough to know that word) will make all sorts of claims about the perils and woes of vegetarianism. I suspect that half the time they are just having a bit of fun with someone that's easy and entertaining to wind up (like I used to do with a veggy colleague, who happens to be one of my closest friends).

What both sides invariably fail to realise is that unless you throw all your stuff away and go and live in the woods, then no matter what you do, you're going to kill animals. Yes, many things die as a result of pesticides to protect our food crops, but equally grazing land for cattle tends not to be very diverse, as the grass is maintained as a monoculture (grass for grazing) and is kept short by the livestock so habitat is taken away from wildlife.

I once had a philosophical debate with a vegan colleague who suggested that it was even wrong to wear leather shoes, so tongue in cheek, I suggested that if we all only ever bought synthetic stuff, then we'd need more chemical plants to produce plastics, poisoning more land and killing more creatures.

Personally, I'm an omnivore, as nature intended. I think its up to the individual what they choose to eat and I have no more right to tell someone to eat meat than they do to tell me not to. I also think that the impact of any diet choice is far more far reaching than the simple black and white view that many people seem to have.

So in short, I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as common sense prevails and pesticides are only used in moderation and only when necessary.

 

I was watching a program a while back where they were picking the wild edible estuary plants, I pondered if it would be possible to build a double wall with pond liner and simple open sided clear plastic roof to keep the rain off, fill with river/estaury mud and salt water made up to sea water strength and grow these edible salt water plants, it would be an eco barrier to snails and slugs....just a thought lol

 

If you are able to maintain a salt water aquarium then it shouldn't present a problem, I think JWK was growing Samphire.

 

and maybe some edible crab n cod or two swimming amongst the carrots

Joking aside did JWK post about growing samphire?

 

There certainly are many organic ways of controlling pests without using chemicals, such as using nematodes and other natural enemies of your pests. I am all in favour of that because of the uncertainty of what chemicals are doing to us. However I doubt that there are any efficient non lethal means. The law of nature says that any insect, or animal, will continue to increase in number until they are stopped.

I don't feel there is any morality behind organic practices - just practicality. There is nothing more violent than nature itself - its just that we usually don't think about it. Using things like nematodes still involves killing pests, but we let the nematodes do the dirty work. I have seen Jains in India, with muslin across their face to prevent them inhaling and killing a mosquito or fly. I really don't understand it. When they drink a glass of water they injest and kill millions of tiny insects and bacteria, but they don't worry about that.

But I do think that we need to minimise the use of chemical pesticides. They are often very complex chemicals and no one is quite sure what they do to other aspects of nature, or to ourselves when they get into our food.

 

I am very grateful for all but one of the answers. Nature doesn't "intend" anything. Intention requires consciousness and thought. Nature is utterly indifferent to how we feel or what we think. But as rational beings we can make choices, and I was determined not to inflict random annihilation on innocent insects just to pass a module! Thankfully, the college agreed with me.