TO FILTER OR NOT TO FILTER......THAT IS THE QUESTION.

Discussion in 'Photography Talk' started by ARMANDII, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I've just acquired a 150mm-500mm Sigma lens for wild life photography and, according to some arguments, using a UV [86mm] filter on it would spoil the image quality. The reasoning behind it is that you're sticking a flat piece of glass, of perhaps lesser optical quality, in front of a lens thereby possibly distorting the image by taking the "edge" off it, even though the filter is of a high standard. They also argue that a filter will also affect the light gathering ability affecting the apertures
    The front lens of the Sigma is a big piece of glass with only a small rim protecting it and it could easily get scratched in general use. I have a lens hood that I can use with or without the filter, but the question is - will using a UV filter on such a large lens for long distance work degrade the image quality??:scratch: :snork: .
     
  2. "M"

    "M" Total Gardener

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    :scratch: :dunno:

    Ask me one on quilting :heehee:
     
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    • Dan The Man

      Dan The Man Gardener

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      Ask me one on sport lol
       
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      • Kleftiwallah

        Kleftiwallah Gardener

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        If it will protect your expensive lens from damage go ahead and fit a filter. You could always take the same snap at the same camera settings with and without filter and compare the results.

        Cheers, Tony.

        (The 74 Sqn photographer bought himself a Hassleblad while in Singapore,

        [wish I had]).
         
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        • Sheal

          Sheal Total Gardener

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          I've not used filters Armandii, but common sense would tell me anything used other than the straight forward lens has got to have some effect, surely. It also depends of course on the subject being photographed. Sorry I can't be of more help, but as Kleftiwallah suggests try making comparisons with and without. :)
           
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          • strongylodon

            strongylodon Old Member

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            I have a UV filter on my Panasonic, mainly for lens protection, I haven't seen any degrading in quality.
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              As an ex-member of No.III Squadron I forgive you, Tony, for having been a member of No.74 Squadron [didn't their Squadron colours include a Tiger?}:heehee:

              Yep, you're right, Tony, that was something I was thinking of while trying to learn how to use the lens to get the best shots.

              You're right, Sheal, that was the argument put forward in the Pentax Forum where the two sides of thought were being discussed. I have to decide on the day whether to use a filter or not. I did some test shots in the garden of the bird feeders about 60 feet away and, to be honest, I failed to see any difference. But when it comes to scenic and really long shots there may be some aberrations to the quality of the image then.:dunno: :snork:
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                Thanks Strongy, your opinion is greatly appreciated as your pics are always of such a high standard. What I'm concerned about is will a UV filter affect a large len's ability to pull detail sharpness when operating at a distance, if you get my meaning.:scratch: :snork:

                My knowledge of quilting is not a patch on yours, Mum:heehee:


                That's another thing I'm useless at, Dan, I get bored and start yawning at the mention of sport:hate-shocked: :snork:
                 
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                • Dave W

                  Dave W Total Gardener

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                  I've used filters on the majority of my lenses and the couple of times I've run comparison tests, failed to see any difference. And, to be honest, given the prices of quality lenses I'd be prepared to accept a smidgin of degradation rather than the risk the significant degradation caused by scratches.
                   
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                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    That's along the lines of my thoughts, Dave. To me these long lenses are a technological marvel and when you see the optical standard of the actual glass I would be mortified if I scratched any lens through carelessness or accident:cry3: :gaah: , so I would have more peace of mind having the protection of a filter.
                    . I think I was more worried about losing quality of optical image when pushing the lens to the maximum where the resolution would tend towards being slightly soft anyway and having a filter glass in front might not help.:dunno:
                     
                  • strongylodon

                    strongylodon Old Member

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                    I will take my polarising filter with me on holiday next month and try it again, didn't make much difference in Kenya. It's a bit of a fiddle swapping filters but I'll give it a go (if the weather is bright enough to need it).
                     
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                    • Steve R

                      Steve R Soil Furtler

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                      Two cameras ago, a UV filter protected my 70-300 lens when it fell out of my bag, the filter smashed but I still use the lens today. However I have not replaced the filter.

                      I now just replace the lens cap after each shot, and around 80% of the time, the camera goes back in the bag. I have a few other filters but rarely use them these days.

                      Armandii, for the best test I can think you could perform is to put your camera in full auto mode at max or near max zoom and take a shot with, then without the filter (whilst on a tripod of course). The cameras full auto will work out the settings for both shots for you to compare and assess that side of things (ie loss of aperture etc). And if you want a private honest image quality appraisal as a second opinion then email me both at full res and I'll report back to you with what I find. I say private just because its near impossible to assess websize images for all accept glaringly obvious differences.

                      Steve...:)
                       
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                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        Thanks Steve, for your expert advice and offer, it really is much appreciated:thumbsup: :snork:
                        I was intending to do just as you suggested.i.e: put the 500mm Sigma and K5 on a tripod take a few varied shots in reasonable light.
                        I have used the Spyderlenscal on the Bigmos and so far I haven't see anything to pick at.:dunno: What started this line of thought was a discussion by the "pixel peeping people" on the Pentax Forum who are very knowledgeable but also "fanatical" in their schools of thought.
                        There are two opposing camps, those purists who wouldn't dream of putting a filter on their large lenses, and those who would for various reasons, such as protecting the big piece of glass on the front of their prized lens and/or for UV or polarising qualities. So having just got the Bigmos I asked the question on the forum "Should I use a filter or not?" and was surprised at the depth of division in opinion. Seeing how little rim protection there was I was a bit apprehensive [knowing how clumsy I can be:hate-shocked:] about even screwing on the metal lens hood frequently knowing how easy it is to scratch a lens. So that is why I asked the question on here. My personal opinion leans towards using the filter I have now just for protection reasons. I never keep a lens hood permanently on a lens, and the lenses used on a trip are always alr cleaned and wiped before putting them away.
                        I have in my initial tests, using the Bigmos, not seen any different Apertures or Shutter speeds being pulled up by the K5. But those shots were of targets only 60 feet away and my thoughts were what about when at the full 500mm length and long distance when image quality will already "suffer" with some softening?.
                        Obviously, size of aperture and ISO speed will also affect resolution and I've been constant with those on the initial tests. But I was wondering what other peoples thoughts were on why they used a filter [if they did}, and what their experiences were.
                        I also trying to do some tests with a 2X tele-converter on all of my lens, which results another GC member is also interested in. I know I will lose two stops and image quality using it so bright light will be needed and it will be interesting to see how good the images are on the 320mm lenses and the Bigmos. I've finished my contract phase in Manchester and I'm going to take a couple of months off before I start in Birmingham on the final phase so I should have time to do the tests properly.
                        If I can't come to a firm conclusion on the filter question, Steve, I will take up your kind offer and see if our thoughts coincide:snork: My computer is colour calibrated so I have a known scale there and images should be constant regarding that.
                         
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                        • Steve R

                          Steve R Soil Furtler

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                          A UV filter does little more than warm a photo up, and is barely noticeable to some people in some photo's, a polariser reduces glare and saturates colour a little whilst an ND reduces light entering the camera. All of the old colour filters used in film days can easily be applied (digitally) in post if required. UV filters are really from film days, I used them a lot then when I had much less control over the final printed photo.

                          I very much doubt that tests will reveal differences in quality perceivable to the eye, save for maybe when hard processing the shot afterwards, but one thing I do remember is about reflections and ghosting with longer exposures.

                          One night whilst out getting some light trail shots from cars I had forgotten I had the uv filter on so the long exposure coupled with the bright lights of the cars refected and ghosted it back into the image, interestingly, it flipped this ghosted image back to front and upside down.

                          I think even clumsy 'togs are careful with their gear though, so whilst you have the filter already, use it whilst you get used to handling/using the big lens and when/if you scratch the filter you can be happy you have saved a lens and if you never scratch the filter you can just stop using it. But with 86mil of glass to protect, no real reason to take it off...except to possibly avoid ghosting.

                          Steve...:)
                           
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                          • Dave W

                            Dave W Total Gardener

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                            A couple of years ago when on holiday in Greece there was quite a spectacular cloud formation over a neighbouring island but also a lot of reflected glare from the sea. I was using a decent Fuji point & shoot but had no polariser with me. I was wearing clip-on polaroid sun glasses so took them off, held one lens in front of the camera's lens, rotated it for best effect, snapped and got a pretty decent photo with deep blue sky, white clouds and next to no reflected glare from the sea!
                             
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