Diseased Seedlings (With images)

Well, where do you go from here.
They say the compost is OK?

Do some of those toms look OK, sure some have wilted but some look OK in the pic.
A bit of wilting is not unheard of after pricking out.

 

Pete

Those maters just withered and keeled over in a further day or so. 100% loss in Bowers.

I am gonna put this down to experience and use what I know in the future.
I couldn't recommend Bowers to anyone for raising seedlings under any circumstances

 

That's a very strong statement to make. I have only used Bowers (as I said earlier: for convenience because my local garden centre sells it) since we moved to this house 7 years ago and I've never had a problem. I use about 75-100 x 65L bags per annum.

 

Welcome to GC EssexMan. Most of us here on GC have had issues with compost last year and this year. A lot of producers have changed the 'make-up' of their compost with horrible results. We have a thread running in General Discussion where we are comparing notes, perhaps you would like to take a look.

 

Kristen

If you lost 100% of plants to one brand of compost, would you recommend it?
I can only make statements from personal experience and that is what I have done.

If Bowers works for you then stick with it. I will stick with and recommend HUMAX.

Sheal. I will take a real interest in that thread

 

No, of course not. But that is rather different to appearing to be making a case of it in a public forum.

 

The pictures show white patches creeping over the seedling - that looks more like a mildew problem rather than sunscorch.

 

Kristen

A public forum, is exactly what it says on the tin. A public forum allows a private individual to air their issues, problems or findings with other like minded folk.

I started this thread to share my experience with Bowers. It is not a one man crusade against your good self. I feel it is my duty to highlight this issue as it may effect *others*. It's called sharing information through personal experience.

I don't know the moderator team on this forum, but I am pretty convinced that if they thought this thread breached ANY forum rules they would remove it !

Keep using your "PARTICULAR BRAND" of Bowers if it works for you and I will continue using my brand.

 

JWK

I am sorry to hear of your recent losses. That's rotten luck !
Bowers still have samples of the compost and want to grow plants in it now, exactly the same as the ones I lost. I don't expect anything to show up badly...I say no more on that.

I will keep interested parties updated on this thread when any news is forthcoming.

Thank you all for taking a keen interest, I appreciate your time hugely.

 

I didn't take it as that. What seemed strange to me was that you registered here yesterday, explained the problem you had had and that you were waiting for soil/compost test results from Bowers and then coincidentally there they were an hour or two later and not seeming to support your view that the compost was responsible ...

It seems to me that there are a number of possibilities for why you have lost 100% of the plants in the compost you used:

1. Compost has toxins in it that killed your plants
2. Something in your husbandry - seems very unlikely as you have other plants in a different brand of compost that are fine, not to mention that you are a gardener of several decades
3. Something about the way you used the Bowers compost that needed to be different to your regular compost (of course you should just be able to "use" any decent brand of compost, but nevertheless ...)

and I suppose there is an outside chance that you have an axe to grind. We get people who arrive here and their first post is dis-ing a particular manufacturer. I don't mean to imply that is your aim, but hypothetically speaking it is a possibility.

I think (3) is a possibility, but I think it extremely unlikely that it would kill all your plants. For example, the watering might be an issue and the plants could become waterlogged and suffer as a result. I've seen the quality of composts deteriorate over the last few years as the proportion of peat has been reduced. "Deteriorate" in particular in the way that they retain water, and have poorer drainage, making plants grow slower / struggle and so on. I agree with an earlier post that you shouldn't need to add anything to these composts before using them, but my solution has been to add 10% Perlite (horticultural sand would do). But as I say, it seems unlikely that a difference between your regular compost and Bowers on water retention would kill off all your plants, particularly as you had 700 plants of several different varieties some of which would have naturally had different water tolerance .

In terms of (1):

Bit hard to tell from your picture how big the containers are, but they look like cells of about 1" - 1.5" ... enough, I am assuming, that you used several bags of compost to prick out 700 plants, rather than just a single bag. So that would imply that there was a faulty batch rather than a single bag.

When you posted this yesterday I scoured Google for reports of people having problems with Bowers compost as this immediately reminded me of the major Aminopyralid herbicide disaster a few years ago that wiped out lots of peoples crops (when they spread manure contaminated with Aminopyralid, a very long duration persistence herbicide, on their allotments etc.; it even turned up in bags of manure at garden centres labelled "Organic" - as JWK of this parish will attest :( )

My search didn't find anything (that says nothing of course, my skills and keyword choices, on Google, may just have missed them). If there was a significant size of batch that was contaminated I would expect to find people complaining. It seems very unlikely to me that you would be the only person effected.

It has long been a belief of mine that Clopyralid could cause the same problem in council recycled "compost" as Aminopyralid did in manure, and I have posted on here about it on several occasions before (the majority consensus has been that the concentration would, after mixing and composting, be too low to have any effect); nonetheless council composted material might well be being used by compost makers. Clopyralid is a herbicide used in selective lawn weedkillers like Verdone Plus. The instructions on Verdone say something like "Do not compost first few cuts, do not put any clippings in council composting bins, do not use home-made compost on garden for XXX months". Of course expecting 100% of General Public to religiously adhere to that is a pipedream :( there will also be lawn maintenance companies, who frequently keep the knowledge of what chemicals they use a trade-secret, who's clients will unwittingly put contaminated clippings into Green Bins as a consequence.

The only potentially useful lead that I turned up in Google was that compost bags stacked outside, particularly in the wet, over winter could induce anaerobic decomposing processes that could release toxins. The article I read was not scientific, so didn't explain what sorts of by-products that process might release. However, if you think the compost might have been stacked for ages, rather than fresh-delivered to your garden centre, that might be a possibility (dunno if the by-product toxins should have been picked up by Bowers tests, or not ...)

If you think that Aminopyralid/Clopyralid might be the cause (I don't think your photographs look like herbicide damage, but its not a problem that I have experienced first hand) then at the time of the Aminopyralid debacle there were "tests" developed; they require that you have some unused compost left (or I suppose you could re-use the compost from the plants that failed) and grow some specific vegetables in the compost (i.e. varieties that are particularly prone to reaction with the herbicide and grow quickly to give you an early diagnosis)

 

Sorry, hadn't seen your post when I was writing my reply - in which I alluded to that.

 

Kristen

(Excellent blog in your signature !!)

I registered yesterday (Wed). The results were actually due in on Monday. There is no conspiracy here, trust me. The results were emailed to me by Bowers late yesterday afternoon. The timing was ideal !

I have also scoured the net for possible repeat occasions of this issue, alas I found nothing. I fully appreciate your efforts in trying at your end. Many thanks !

The further information you have provided is invaluable ! Thanks for taking the time, I fully appreciate it !

You stated :-

"and I suppose there is an outside chance that you have an axe to grind. We get people who arrive here and their first post is dis-ing a particular manufacturer. I don't mean to imply that is your aim, but hypothetically speaking it is a possibility."

Let me assure you that there is no possibility of that here !

You also stated :-

"Something about the way you used the Bowers compost that needed to be different to your regular compost (of course you should just be able to "use" any decent brand of compost, but nevertheless ...)"

I bought the compost on the same day as I actually used it. So I am not sure as to how I would actually treat it in any better way. I have actually shown a few images below of the rear of the compost bag, for your reference. I think I followed recommendations to the T. Of course, you may disagree with me. There are no warnings on the bag etc.

 

I haven't read the directions on the back of a bag of Bowers for ages ... useful to see that again. There has been a lot of chatter on here (previous years too) about how totally inadequet some of these instructions are, and also how unfit-for-purpose some brands of compost are. Wickes last year had "Seed and Potting Compost" that was full of such rough material as to be totally inapproiate for Seed germination. Temporary signs were put up in stores saying "Not suitable for seeds" ... this year some of that stuff was still found to be on sale, no signs any more, and so it goes on.

You've been growing plants for decades, you don't need any instructions I'm sure, but I think that watering between the composts is different ... but like I said I can't see that killing 100% of your plants, and given your experience you'd probably react to it before it became terminal.

FWIW I riddle the compost using 3/8" sieve when I use small modules (1" or so) so that I don't run the risk that just one or two cells "get a lumpy bit in them" which might upset that one particular seedling. Shouldn't be necessary I know, and I have no idea how a stick 3" long can get through the grading process ... (I then add my 10% perlite)

For potting on to 9cm I riddle using a 1/2" sieve. [Edit: in case anyone actually cares! I think its bigger than that, but I'm too lazy to go any check!] I don't find much, if anything, to remove, and it pretty much falls-through the sieve, but it does mean that I find, and break up, any lumps from compaction of the bag sitting at the bottom of the pallet load!! or whatever, before I start potting with it. Again I add 10% perlite.

Above 9cm in size I don't do anything, just break up any lumps as I find them, I figure in a 1L or bigger pot the plants can fend for themselves! I still put 10% perlite in for almost everything as I think it helps with drainage.

I'll be interested to hear how the investigations progress. Lets hope, for the sake of others, that you are not the first of many ... :(

Just to clarify in case there is a misunderstand on that point

I wasn't considering that you had had the bags for ages, but rather whether the Garden Centre, or their distributor, might have had the compost bags outside stacked in the wet over winter - such that anaerobic processes could have started. (The compost would probably have smelled pretty bad if that had been the case, so you probably would have noticed)

I buy the majority of my compost bags in the Autumn because I think that the compost that is made in the Summer is better than what is available in the Spring (either because it is made from wetter materials, or because it has been stacked outside in the wet, not sure which)