Why would anyone join the armed forces?

I wish I could mount a massive counter to this, but I can't because I know you're right. Its like WW2 and the politics leading to it. "Lest we forget" is something I've heard/seen written many times at services and the funerals of my grandads and such. I think it's trying to say we should 'remember' what happened so we can spot the signs and make sure it doesn't happen again. By 'remember', obviously I mean 'learn/understand' because I can't remember it, I wasn't even born, but I speak to people younger than me, people who are young enough such that they didn't have grandparents that lived it to tell them about it etc, and some of their ideas are worryingly fascist. We already saw it happen again, albeit not quite on the same scale, when Yugoslavia fell apart, and indeed when many of the former Soviets started to fall out.

Yes, my grandad, my dad, me, and my oldest son. We are just younger exact copies of each other.

 

If I remember correctly the Arabs thought that the Argylls came from a wild hill tribe, (not far wrong)

 

Excellent replies, from Armandii, Loofah, Billy Bell and others

To clueless it is a lot different now, but when you joined up in the 50's/early 60's
You had two options, sign the dotted line for Nine years, or for a higher rate of pay
Twentytwo years,
On day one you were asked were you willing, and if not you can stand up in front of the other
50 new entries, walk to the front and get a railway warrant home, Then one week later, you could say I can not take this
That was your last chance, come hell or high water there was no going back, 22 years it was
(Unless you were very bad, then you went to The Toughest Jail in the World for eighteen months, and then were kicked out with nothing, and an exceptionally bad CV on Linen paper that you could not hide (explain to an employer where you have been for twelve years)

In the very early 70's it was deemed a bit unfair (and the Government were wanting to cut staff)
it was stated that you could give eighteen months notice, and pay back a years salary to leave early (Buy yourself out dependant on how much your job was no longer wanted

Why join, too many different reasons as Armandii has stated
Though the offer to travel the world FREE, and be paid, learn a damn good trade, retire with a good pension aged 40 with impeccable discipline and experience
Live life to the full with 20 lads your same age, along with a further 36000 fellow servicemen
Why not
You do know that "you" never get killed or maimed one is immortal
(There are actually worse things than death, or fighting in action, that some servicemen/women have to live with for the rest of their lives)

I have only being in skirmishes, you do not think it will be you that gets killed, The ones that do get killed know nothing about it, the ones that are maimed use along with the other servicemen BLACK HUMOUR, Our Fire brigade people use the same black humour

As I understand it now, you only have to commit for three years, again at a lower income, and the buy out is only one years notice and half a years salary pay back

I have started to ramble, and rant,
If I was young and fit enough I would go back tomorrow

As for Marine "A" On the face of it it appears wrong,
Put yourself in the position, of facing Taliban, (No uniforms to fight against, it could be the nice guy whose computer you have just fixed) every second of every day for six months, as
you drive to work each day, you see bits of your best ever friend hanging in trees, or spiked on railings along the way (It is not like your best friend, it is the person you have spent six years living and breathing every second together)
I think that would make you snap

Again I think they were utter fools for filming it and keeping the information
What happens on HMS BULWARK STAYS ON HMS BULWARK

Jack McH

 

This is kind of my point. I don't think I would snap. I know I would snap. Maybe that's one of the reasons I never followed through when I was in the recruitment process, although I never thought of it like that at the time. I saw the news of the UN peacekeepers standing and watching (following orders not to intervene) while a village was trashed, mean summarily executed, women raped then killed, and kids, some toddlers, shot in the head, and I withdrew my application. I don't judge the soldiers that stood by following orders. If soldiers did their own thing, it would be chaos, but I judged 'the system' and decided I wanted no part of it. Possibly because I don't think I could have followed that order. I would probably have been the one that got my comrades into a lot of bother by doing my own thing (and dragging them into it by doing so). I don't understand why they were ordered such. Perhaps because the Russians never really approved of NATO/UN's presence in the first place, perhaps some other reason that I'll never have the info about that I'd need to understand, but whatever, I realised that I couldn't give myself 100% to that sort of system.

The marine that's facing life in jail for killing his enemy, the enemy as defined by the people that put him in that situation, may have done wrong. But what I don't get is how he can be treated the same as a cold blooded murderer without any consideration at all for the circumstances. That's the system I can't understand. I know many people personally who are ex-services and they say pretty much the same as those of you on here that are ex-services have said, and it sounds fantastic about the camaraderie, opportunity etc, but right at the top, outside of the military and inside the politics that control the military, it just sounds to me like the military are treat as kind of a machine, a tool to be used, with no consideration at all for the fact that it is actually a collection of exceptionally good human beings.

 

The toughest Jail in the world
I do not know about the Rif Raf, the Royal Navy had RNDQ's (Royal Naval Detention Quarters)
The Army had Colchester, which is now the joint services prison

RNDQ's
Awake at 05:00, lift mattress (every second in their is at the double ie Run fast lifting knees to chest) you then had to take the mattress down the stairs, and run around the parade ground (football field) ten times with the mattress shoulder high on your back
You then doubled back to your cell, where you had to make up your bedding to inspection standards, and be immaculate in cleanliness both yourself and your cell
You were then allowed to double to breakfast, weak tea no sugar, and porridge made with water no sugar, double back to your cell
Stand outside your cell not crossing the Red Line doubling on the spot
Then you had to scrub your cell out using a tooth brush and carbolic soap, polish an aluminium Spitkid ( a type of low rubbish bin) until is shone Watched and shouted at in your face by one of the Royal Naval Patrol
When that was done you were given a six foot piece of Rope 4" diameter, and you had to shred it down to Oakum (sort of like lambs wool fibres)
You did not actually get time off to yourself but you had to chain stich your name on every article of clothing (ie your full Naval Kit and in those days it was EVERYTHING socks pants vests, foul weather gear, all your different uniforms approximately six, Tropical, Western, Arctic, working dress, second dress and number one dress)
If you smoked you were allowed one roll up per day not at the double but only six minutes
Then you doubled to Dinner, weak soup, and crap meat, and a sponge pudding with water custard,
Take your Rifle at the double and do another ten rounds of the parade ground with it held above your head
More Oakum picking and so on until 22:00
You were not allowed to speak to anyone else, and had to answer SIR to anyone of authority who was drilling you
During the night your cell was opened every four hours, you had to get up and double on the spot, then after five minutes you could go back to sleep
Every second of every day of your sentence
It was normally 28 days for, going absent, or striking another rating, up to eighteen months before discharge for striking an officer or causing dissent amongst the ranks and in the later years ie 70's taking drugs)
In my service I only came across Nine who had actually done it or in perspective one on each ship from say seven 28 days, who came back onboard after losing six stones and fit as hell and one never seen again (stole drugs from the ships dentist and took it all, it took eight of us to actually hold him down and get him into a holger neilson stretcher a sort of straight jacket)

My own demons are pulling children out at Aberfan, (we were given loads of rum and spades)
Nigeria in 68 skirmish shot and/or shoot

Jack McHammocklashing

 

Maybe in my youthful naivety (at that time - I was only 18), I may have misinterpreted the many and varied signals that were coming in.

At the time, I was joining up because the marketing promised me a good career in engineering, trained to the highest standards, unrivalled physical fitness, adventure, and the chance to make friends that were more than friends but more like family.

Then war broke out with Yugoslavia breaking up and genocide happening, and my resolve was even stronger. I had visions of contributing positively to the prevention of innocent civilian slaughter.

Then news came of the incident I referred to earlier, where UN Peace keepers were, as I recall it being reported (I don't know how the info may have been distorted somewhere between the front line and the news as it appeared on TV) that the peace keepers were told to do nothing but watch. As I said, the news may have been distorted, but it showed big guns and armoured vehicles and lots of soldiers with guns and modern gear, while the village was being ransacked by thugs, armed with nothing more than out dated former soviet light rifles.

I was told during the recruitment process that I could be deployed in a number of ways, including in the blue uniform of a member of the peace keeping force.

I didn't judge the system the system once I was part of it, unless you count being in the recruitment process prior to finalising everything as being in it, and if that is the case, I judged it once, decided I wanted to be in it, learned more and judged it again.

I have the sense that you might think I'm judging the actual military people themselves. I'm not. I've always been proud of our military, and remain so. What I'm less proud of is all the political side of it. It is not the military that I fell out with when I withdrew my application, it is the political machine.

I also get the sense that I'm being judged as someone who doesn't know what they're on about having never been in the military. I've never claimed that I was in the military or that I know what it is like to be in the military. My original question, based on observations as a civvy, was why would anyone, who like me, hasn't been in the military, want to join it now with the kind of stuff we see in the media.

 

Is it possible to have one without the other?

I don't pick up that sense, clue: what I pick up is that your question is being answered by a number those who have military experience and therefore, insight (and their own reasons for joining) in order to give perspective to your question.

I wonder if you are overthinking this?

Clearly, you gave some weight to what was being portrayed in the media, at the time of your own application: you weighed up your options; you made a choice. That choice was right for you, at that time, given your circumstances and political views.

There are many young people in civvy street who may not give it such deep thought and their thoughts may well be much more immediate. Their choices may be far more simple: join the forces ... or the dole.

Politics are not foremost in young peoples minds: the voting figures are a reflection of that.

They may consider the potential for serious injury/death exist, but that age group generally see themselves as immortal and will (if they think about it in any depth at all) consider the percentage of seriously injured/killed vs the total population of the military and decide it is a small enough gamble. Especially when the alternative is serious injury/death by stagnation in civvy street where their options are so restricted and their self worth may be more at stake and considered of higher value?

 

@stumorphmac, your opinion is as valued by me as anyone else's.

Would you care to elaborate which bits you disagree with? Have I completely imagined the news items that I referred to? Or were you disagreeing with my point that the military personnel are all exceptional people? Or were you disagreeing because I said I wouldn't take a job on those terms?

On the next post you disagree on, I'm not sure which bit you're disagreeing with there either. Do you disagree that we are able to pass judgement from the comfort of our relatively safe homes, or that some people don't have the luxury?

Or did you simply hit the disagree button just because you disagree with me for raising the subject?

I mean no offence, but the disagree button can sometimes be a little bit too vague as a means of expressing an opinion. I was hoping to understand the situation better than I currently do, and many people have offered very insightful posts to that end. I'd love to read your opinion, but I can't guess it just from a little red icon alone.

 

And of that, I have no doubt

Yet, I have a feeling that Our Mandy, Aye, meant something a little less obvious/inherited.

I recall my mother saying to me: "Live long enough, and you find yourself meeting the same people"

(How much did I dislike her mystic Meg 'sayings' ) Right up until the point ... I recognised what she alluded to ! )

It's not the same as inherited virtues/physic. It is beyond either, yet consistent

 

I can remember seeing the so called "Task Force" heading off to the South Atlantic in the early 80s, loads of young blokes all full of how we were going to knock the Argies for six.

They looked different on return somehow, even though we won.

When you are young you think you will live for ever, add a bunch of high ups, stirring national pride and telling you, you are the best in the world, and its no wonder youngsters join up.

Its only when they get posted to a war zone that reality clicks in.

I seem to remember all those old recruitment ads on the TV years ago.
"Join the army and see the world" etc.
No mention of coming home in a body bag.