Skint

That's not the case around here. I can't speak for hill farming areas, which I expect are dramatically different, but around here (I live deep in rural arable countryside):

1) There are large landowners. Some "always were" but some have been buying land for 30 years (having, presumably made their money elsewhere). A large farm, when I was a kid, was 1,000 acres. That is now not large enough to live off.

2) There are people who own small farms. They don't farm them, they make a living elsewhere.

3) There are "farmers". They farm their own land (which might not be very much) and they contract farm land around them, including (2). The ones I know are farming around 5,000 acres and probably have only 2 or 3 full time employees. They do have some hefty kit - Combines are huge and £500k - £750k.

Yes it is farming on an industrial scale. It drives the price down, which is what Mr and Mrs Average Shopper want. Bad thing? Dunno. The rural communities have changed, but mostly the complaint is that Townies have moved into the village and their kids are responsible for 100% of the vandalism and petty theft, and thus "they have wrecked the community". Of course Townies bring more money with them than the villagers have, so they paint rooms and build extensions / conservatories, and that provides work for Trades locally - who then have income to spend locally, and so it goes.

Probably the biggest Bad Thing with industrial scale farming is what happens when we get Foot and Mouth or the like. It becomes critical that we do NOT let that into the country, but I don't trust government to be doing enough to safeguard US by looking after that - but I have some sympathy that in austere times they have to cut corners everywhere - costs a LOT more to fix that problem, than to prevent it in the first place of course - just like skimping by not cleaning your gutters.

I definitely don't see that round here. Sure, it is a potential problem, but 5,000 acre farmers look after their fields and surrounding countryside a lot better than 50 x 100 acre farmers ever did before. Small farmers never had spare time (or big enough Kit) to do anything other than make a living. Rusting equipment piled high, rotting sheds, eyesores everywhere you looked. Manure piled where convenient for as long as necessary (right next to houses if that suited them ...). None of that now, apart from legislation farmers don't want the local community alienated against them. (Townies of course move to the countryside NOT expecting any funny smells, and are vociferous in their complains - I wonder if they can hear how hard to Ruralites are laughing at them?!)

Large Farmer also has big Shooting in the winter (or paint balling, or Golf on some set-aside land, whatever) - selling shooting days at huge expensive to rich city folk. Farms and countryside need to look good, and BE well cared for, for that to work well. That brings plenty of city money into countryside - eating at local pubs / restaurants, employment for part time staff and so on. They build holiday homes too - and need gardeners, building trades, and so on. Round here the countryside is well cared for, in the main.

Yes. I don't think supermarkets set about making people obese by creating Ready Meals, anymore than cigarette companies wanted to kill people with Lung Cancer, but supermarkets are just as feet-dragging about losing that market share as tobacco companies have been. In the 80's I fell into that Ready Meal consumer group. Bachelor + convenience. Glad I exited before I got fat, and poor! But there is a lot of education to be done, for sure. Lots of people have no idea how to cook - so the benefit of affordable Washing Machines enabling Mum to go out to work meant that they then bought ready meals and Kids didn't learn how to cook from Mum.

I wonder if anyone predicted that at the time? If so I'd like to read what predictions they have for the next 50 years please

 

Indeed. Best (no doubt apocryphal) story I heard was when Loyalty cards first started collecting customer data and they discovered, from the data, that they sold lots of Nappies and Beer on Friday nights. Further analysis revealed that this was Wife calling Husband and saying "Whatever you do, make sure to get some nappies on the way home" - of course he bought some beer too so now Nappies and Beer are at opposite ends of the store.

However - have you fired up MySupermarket.co.uk yet? That is your solution. You will not walk the aisles looking for things, and being suckered into spontaneous purchases, you will put your shopping list, and no more, in and then it will say one of these things:

The smaller size of XXX is on BOGOFF so swap 2 small for your one large
or
Posh Brand YYY is on Special at the moment, so buy that better quality / tastier / whatever this week at no extra cost
or
Sainsbury's is cheaper for these 10 products this week.

You will probably look at the Offers on MySupermarket.co.uk - I do! but they are all in one place, on one screen, you won't be walking around the supermarket making any spontaneous purchases.

Scrungee needs to sell his services to MySupermarket.co.uk so they can leverage all the Offers and mis-labelling too, and then all shoppers will be PAID to shop at supermarkets

 

Shame you can't click 'Like' and 'Funny' on the same post

 

s

How would anybody who'd entered into a fixed price contract with a building contractor to build them a house react if part way through the works the builder told them his material and labour costs had all increased since entering into contract, and as house prices had increased he felt entitled to some of your profit?

And maybe the dairy farmers who foresaw forthcoming price increases and put in higher tender prices actually went bust?

 

I don't know, but what I have noticed is how many farms seem to be turning into holiday parks. Maybe they've cottoned on to the fact that there are more lucrative uses for their land?

 

Re-merchandising is done regularly to make you look for items, in the hope you pick up extra items in your search.

 

Contrats are between two partys (buying and selling), if you don't like what in a contrat don't sign it, lots of the contrats between dairy farmers and the dairys are so old they go back to MMB but they're still used today

 

Might be that it is more lucrative, but I think?? it came about because EU said we were over producing food, so first they had "set aside" and farmers were paid not to farm some land, then we had incentives to take land out of farming, so to speak, and I think that is where Leisure Boom use of farming land came from. If you want to play golf I am surprised that you would want to play on a course on farm land that was created "Yesterday": no trees to speak of, and greens with silly ridges in them to make them more tricky, in the style of Crazy Golf, rather than "intriguing" to Read and Play on. But clearly people do play on such courses ...

 

I think 'modern' farmers are proper hardcore business people, they would spot a dodgy contract a mile off. The trouble is there are still a lot of old school farmers who's expertise lies exclusively in farming, such as the chap that my dad used to work for, and who are barely even able to read or write, let alone understand all the intricacies of a proper contract put together by a proper lawyer.

If you're not sat in front of a computer all day with a phone strapped to your head, you could be easily forgiven for thinking, for example, that things like animal feed prices and fuel prices will only change in line with inflation, and that your income will also change in line with inflation thus everything balances out. That's where they get caught out. A proper business man will have contacts everywhere, and will hear on the 'grapevine' that horrendous weather on the far side of Europe, or a political dispute in Africa or Asia means that in three months time we're going to see a massive rise in the price of something or other which will have a knock on effect on so and so. Old school farmers like my dad worked for don't think along those lines. They think, at today's prices, I'll need to buy X tonnes of feed for the year, and I'll use Y gallons of diesel at this price, and I'll get Z pounds for my produce. Then they get stung hard when anything changes and they realise they're tied in for the next decade.

 

There are variations on that - some are in the Farmers favour.

"Agricultural Factors", if that is the right word, that sell them Seed, acting as a middle man and negotiating good group discounts - like a Co-op - then grow and branch out into Fuel and Tractor Spares - and then the Mr Average Farmer is saving on his Costs side, without having to become a whizz kid! The Co-op I built a system for recently is branching out beyond that into health care insurance policy, mobile phone contracts, across-the-board discounts on electricity - you name it. So the farmer may well be getting increasing savings on Inputs without any increase in effort or skills.

He's probably getting squeezed on his Outputs of course ... but occasionally speculators move in to the market one season, or the rest of the world has a bad season and we don't, and prices double overnight and the farmer makes a windfall - that's when the new combine arrives, or the tumbling down farmhouse gets re-thatched - and of course the fertiliser companies get greedy and double their prices the following year - even though their input costs haven't changed - but for that one harvest the Farmer got "all square". That is the nature of farming - they have to have most of their "profit" put-by, rather than spent on luxuries. Also they tend to find that a bit of their land is on the curtilage of the village, and periodically someone wants to extend their garden, or the council planners decides to expand by 10 or 20 houses - huge windfall then, difference between price for agricultural land and residential is like night and day of course. Farming is not the sort of business where you can influence that outcome, unlike more entrepreneurial success stories.

 

The debate continues in fair spirit................

And is that not was is obscene about capitalism?
I regard myself as a socialist. Socialism for me does not rule out the concept of individual success but mean that with success comes a social responsibility. You pay more towards the welfare state to help those who need help (I'm as offended by freeloaders as anyone). What it does not subscribe to is the concept of huge chunks of the national wealth being in the hands of a few mega corporations. You have alluded to my idea of socialist leanings by the example of using local tradesmen (eg; over the likes of British Gas plumbing services).

See above.

In true communism there is no need for envy as the community works as a whole, where each individual plays to his or her strengths yet is valued as an equal.
Obviously, Marxism or other forms of dictatorships make the rules up as they go along to benefit the elite.

Sadly, the word machines is the important word there.

I have no interest in where the orders are fulfilled from, just the value of the turnover from their online orders. This would have to cover instore reservations for collection too.

Two in one!

We are too far down that route to ever get a definitive answer, although my gut feeling is that it's a bad thing.

They have changed in as much as they are now fractured settlements inhabited by a few different cliques. Family groups are now dispersed amongst the towns in the area, often into housing estates where they feel isolated. One heck of a price to pay to further the success of a handful of tradesmen from those very towns.

Cutting corners does not equal making the most of what is actually available though.

So five thousand acres now supports a handful of full time jobs as opposed to fifty. That fails to add up. That 5000 acre farm now uses a questionable method of extreme intensity, but hides behind a veneer of neatly trimmed hedgerows!

I've yet to notice this city money keeping village shops, bus routes or pubs open around here. Trust me, we are plagued with them around here.

Those "visionaries" who are behind it did - the rest of us just sleep walked into it like obedient sheep.

As a one fingered typist this has taken ages, so I'll come back to it later. However, so as not to lose sight of the original post, here's a thought. Why is Clueless in a good job and on the face of it a sensible individual in this situation? I propose this idea to ponder on - our esteemed leaders despite the benefit of the best education that money can buy have still not grasped that it is more important to build an economy around the mode wage as opposed to building everything around the mean wage. If I were cynical I might say that they do understand but use the word average to hide behind as they protect the interests of themselves, their families and their peers.

 

I actually got one of those £5 off £40 spend vouchers yesterday when I bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 complete with 16GB micro SD card plus 1 year's accidental damage cover & 2 year's warranty cover (so same as buying from John Lewis) for £199 but with a £60 gift card and I also got a £5 off 40 voucher that I'll use when using the gift card, getting the cost down to £135.

There have been places (Asda) selling it recently for £129, but are now OOS (and JL price matching), but I got 200 Clubcard Points when I bought it (199 + 1 for bag re-use), then I'll get another 65 points when I spend the vouchers (and get another 5 bag re-use points), so a total of 270 points, worth £5.40 if doubling up (getting cost down to £129.60) but if trebling up for holidays, T&M vouchers, etc. they'd be worth £8.10 (getting cost down to £126.90).

I normally do this mental arithmetic stuff when looking at the product on the shelf whilst Mrs Scrungee searches our bag of money off vouchers (that we always take shopping with us) for the likes of money off electrical goods vouchers. The next calculations will be how to get the absolute most from that £60 gift card. Potentially, spending £40 at Tesco next week will generate a 2nd £5 off £40 voucher and add to the savings (I had that at the back of my mind when decision making yesterday) as the vouchers Morrisons have sent out are valid until 16th March and Tescos usually keep their offers going whilst the competitors do so.

Then it's a choice between £5 off £40 (12.5% off at Tescos) and £3 off £20 (15% off at Morrisons). Or both, as with that minimal differential either could be cheapest,

 

My 'Lloyds" formerly known as "LloydsTSB" bank account gives me 10% cash back when I pay by DDC card at "Morrisons, my preferred store, you have to click on the offer which appears to be every other month.

 

I got an email back from Tesco following my rage at them about the site crashing right when confirming the order and then removing the £15 discount voucher. They apologised and confirmed the order had gone through and they'd re-added the £15 discount. We'll see.