ANOTHER HOBBY AND STEEP LEARNING CURVE

Discussion in 'Members Hobbies' started by ARMANDII, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    If they don't, Joolz, they're either to young or have just stopped breathing and you can always tell them!!:heehee:
     
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    • joolz68

      joolz68 Total Gardener

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      No mans allowed in my shed :) breathing on my seeds Nah :loll:
      x
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        It would be worth holding my breath and going red in the face for the privilege, Joolz!!!:mute::heehee:
         
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        • Sheal

          Sheal Total Gardener

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          We are past the watershed aren't we? :heehee:
           
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          • Dave W

            Dave W Total Gardener

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            What a wonderful bit of kit Armandii! My school chaplain had one the same and also had a camera attachment and took some amazing astro-photos.
            Here's wishing you dark skies :ccheers:
             
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            • "M"

              "M" Total Gardener

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              Depends on the time you are reading it - *this* moment, I can say "yes". Now, if I read it tomorrow coffee break ... :dunno: ... :whistle: ....
               
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              • Kristen

                Kristen Under gardener

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                Cracking piece of kit Our Mandy :)

                When I first got into Astronomy I found www.cloudynights.com forum very helpful.

                I expect you will use the GoTo, but if you want to point the scope manually I found a Red Dot pointer much easier than the finder scope. The one I had is called Telrad
                http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html
                It enables you to offset from a known star by 5-degrees (or whatever) and then when you look through the scope Bingo! the thing you want is slap bang in the middle. Before I had that I did a search-plane zig-zag pattern across the sky trying to stumble onto the object :)

                You will easily see Jupiter's moons (they instinctively look different to stars), and depending on the power of your scope (and how dark the skies are, and how good the "seeing" on the night) you may be able to see Jupiter's red spot. If you can't, and have the patience, you can keep observing it and there will be moments of better "seeing" where you will get more of the picture.

                The first time viewing Saturn's rings through an amateur 'scope is a memorable occasion. Its (currently) a bit low in the sky though

                Still time to have a look at Orion's nebula - before it disappears over the horizon for the Summer.

                Other sights I like are the Cluster in Hercules and a bit later in the year (Summer onwards) the Andromeda galaxy - once you have learnt where it is, and given a reasonably dark sky, you should be able to just about make it out with the naked eye; its just a faint-fuzzy blob in the scope, but it blows me away that the light you see has taken more than 2 million years to get here :) also how wide it is - if you get a good, wide angle, eyepiece you can compare the angular width of it with something like the Seven Sisters - they are about the same width except that the Seven Sisters is a few hundred light years away, and my brain struggles to comprehend carrying on that angular width for a further 2 million light years and trying to figure out how wide that thing actually is :)

                You'll be able to see Venus's crescent, and the Moon is an interesting target of course - look at the terminator (the divide between light and dark) as that's where you will see the most contrast, which enables you to make out hills and valleys.

                You'll probably need a bit of a budget for some eyepieces, particularly if the scope can take a 2" eyepiece? I have a TeleVue Panoptic 41mm - that has a 68° Apparent Field of View
                http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=22&Tab=EP_EPO-41.0
                and if you can afford a Nagler that's an 82° Apparent Field of View - its like being in a planetarium!
                http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=21&Tab=EP_EN5-31.0
                 
              • Spruce

                Spruce Glad to be back .....

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                I was going to say something similar but thought Noooo and look who did :chicken:
                 
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                • HarryS

                  HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                  Kristens answered this above... so you will be able to see other galaxies , the distance to even our nearest Andromeda is incredible . Will you be able to see a spiral galaxy ?
                   
                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  Cheers, Dave, that's much appreciated:thumbsup::snork:. I'm planning on buying a camera adapter for the telescope along with other "bits and pieces" as it was the thought of being able to do a bit of astro photography that was partly driving me to buy the "Beast".

                  Hi Kristen, many thanks for the link and the advice [which is much needed:heehee:]. The telescope only came with the one eyepiece but I intend to add to it obviously. I'm not too worried about the budget for the eyepieces as if I don't spend the money on those the tax man will only have it:nonofinger::heehee: So again thank you for the other links they'll be a great help. I've already done a bit of research on the Red Dot Finder and you're right the opinion is that the Telrad is the best and most suitable for me, so that's on the list. I'll do a bit more research and see what I have to put specifically on the list of wants!!!:snork:



                  Looking forward with idiotic childish excitement to that, Kristen. My garden faces South and I might just do what the Seller has done and buy a wooden shed, convert the roof so that it slides, and use it as an observatory as I've got more than enough space on hard surfaces. I've just downloaded and printed the Manual for the Telescope [70 pages!!!:hate-shocked:] and also a very good and comprehensive illustrated guide to Collimating a Newtonian Reflector Telescope. So I've got a lot of reading and learning to ahead of me........it's like going back to School!!!


                  Being a Fisherman, Sheal, I have all the Thermal gear to keep me warm and dry with no problems and I'll be in easy reach of a hot mug of tea or I'll have my thermos flask filled with "something or other!!". But if I buy a small shed and convert it into an Observatory with power that should help.:yes:


                  I'm hoping so, Harry, with the added bonus of being able take digital pics!!:hapydancsmil:
                   
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                  • Kristen

                    Kristen Under gardener

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                    presumably your GoTo gadget will "track" as well? (If not astro-photography is not going to be very practicable).

                    Suggest you look into getting a Webcam type attachment, rather than using your camera (with adapter). Although I know little about it, so don't go primaryily by my advice!

                    The idea with web-cam-route is that it takes gazillions of frames, the quality doesn't need to be outstanding, and you then use some "stacking" software that stacks the frames, on top of each other so to speak, aligns the bright objects (so I assume sorts them out if the tracking is a little-bit-off, and for the duration of the exposure selects frames with greater clarity [e.g. where atmospheric disturbance, for that moment, was minimal; or no clouds passing over! and no aeroplane con-trails :) ] and you wind up with WAY more detail than you can see through the eyepiece with Mark #1 Eyeball.

                    Its not for me though ... what I can't see through the eyepiece I'm happy to look at a Hubble picture of ...

                    I have a selection of Meade eyepieces, they are reasonably quality and not bank-breaking. I have 20mm, 11mm, 6.7mm. Depends on your focal length, of course, but 6.7mm is my max magnification (200x springs to mind, but it might be 400x, I can't be bothered to look up / do the calcs, sorry!) and I use it very rarely. Its only any use for Moon / planets. My Televue Panoptic is actually 35mm (now that I have checked!) and is a really generous wide-sky gazing lens, but the Televue Nagler would be nicer :)

                    I got all my kit from Telescope House. Dunno if they have good prices now, but I would have researched it at the time and they would have been best-bang-for-buck when I bought it- but that's more than 10 years ago when is started :)

                    If you are going to use GoTo, rather than push-to navigation (which does help you learn where things are in relation to other things) then no point getting the TelRad. I enjoyed learning how to navigate my way around the sky, and I did subsequently buy a GoTo navigator computer thingie (I have a Dobsonian scope - so no motorised GoTo - Dobsonian is just a 3-ply rotating base which is rock stable, but you have to push/tilt the scope to point it at any object, the idea is that the money saved on a really stable tripod mount can be spent on a BIGGER scope [its got a 12" primary :) ] ) and it is quite fun to know what the key objects in the sky are - so you can Talk Down to ordinary mortals - but I'm a bit of a geek at heart, as you know :)

                    So my need to learn to navigate the sky would have been different to yours. You might want to do that as a secondary project? whereas for me it was a must-do first step!

                    If you are shopping your might like to have a green laser pen-thingie. If you have friends round and are looking at things in the sky its a million times easier than pointing with your finger and expecting your friend to be able to figure out WHAT you are pointing at :)

                    Put the scope out for 30 mins to an hour before you observe - to allow the optics to cool to ambient. In the winter it may be a race before they get condensation on them (solution to that is a heater - but that distorts the viewing - you might restrict your viewing to an hour or so come winter time :) )

                    You could get a red torch (so you don't disturb your night vision when outside viewing, or if you need to come back into the house to get something). I bought one initially, but I never really used it - there was always enough ambient light that, once I had acquired night vision, I would find my way back to the house. I then closed by viewing-eye tightly, turned the house light on, used my other-eye, and found what I needed. Weird feeling when you go back outside with one eye in Night Vision mode and the other not!

                    South aspect is the best direction to view most-of-the-time.
                     
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                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      Yep, it will, Kristen. I've yet to buy an adapter for the camera and also learn how to get the best out of it.
                      Well, I have considered that, Kristen, but I think I will "pace" myself and not attack everything at once. Digital photography is my first Love and I want to use the knowledge and equipment I've already got to enjoy astro photography and build my skills while making the usual and inevitable mistakes!!:heehee: I already have the software stacking program Helicon but I have never put any of my pics using it on this Forum but I will use it for astronomy to get that better result. The Web camera side I think can wait until I have some more knowledge and confidence in using a Telescope and am able to find my way around the skies.

                      I love looking at the Hubble images as some of them are just heart stopping and so I'm always having a quick look for new images or going back to look at the ones that made me stop and stare!!

                      I've looked at the Telescope House site and their prices are comparable to the other specialists and I'm still doing my research on that with the intention of initially buying a 9mm and 32mm eye piece. Then, hopefully, as I get more knowledge and experience I'll get more lenses that I think I need. But on my buying list is a Power Transformer, a Red Dot Finder, and whatever two lenses that I think I need for the moment. I'm quite prepared to spend a bit on the eye pieces so that I can get the best images, but I also think I need to get the experience to appreciate the difference between the medium level and the higher level of optics before I buy one or two eye pieces at the higher end.

                      I think I will be following in your footsteps, Kristen, and while I will use the Go To occasionally I would rather find my own way around the skies and get that feeling of satisfaction of the success of finding something I was looking for!!! The more I read and research the more I realise how addictive Astronomy is, so I think I'm going to enjoy myself while struggling with the learning curve.

                      That one of the things that the Seller really drummed into me. His answer to it was to have the Garden Shed which he'd made into an Observatory with a sliding roof so the Telescope had never been in the House. I'm seriously thinking of doing the same thing as the Shed doesn't have to be that big and I have enough hard surface to put it on and keep the Telescope at one ambient temperature.

                      One of the things that my House had to have when I was looking for a house to buy was that it had to have a South facing garden, but that originally was because of my gardening ambitions so I'm spot on regarding that!!:hapydancsmil:

                      "A red light torch"
                      Got one [or two] of those as head torches for my other hobby of fishing!!!

                      I downloaded and printed the 70 page Manual for the Celestron as that didn't come with the Telescope [although he still had the original boxes to pack it in!!]. That was a pain as halfway through the Printer ran out of ink which required a change of tanks. Then I had to "persuade" it that I had renewed the ink, re-calibrate the head, and restart. Then just I got into the last ten pages the paper jammed:gaah: I got there eventually!!!


                      No, I'm of the same mind as you, I need to learn the skies first above everything else.
                       
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                      • Kristen

                        Kristen Under gardener

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                        Can your scope take a 2" eyepiece? If so I would seriously consider that for the 32mm - and get a posh one. I got a cheap 2" one originally and the F.o.V. was nothing like the Panoptic, and I've not really used it much so although it was OK, and cheap :), it wasn't money well spent. I can't speak for the higher magnification lenses, as I've never had the opportunity to look through a high-end, wide FoV, high magnification lens, but for the low magnification ones the wide FoV that I have is like night and day to the cheaper, narrow FoV, one that I bought.

                        Local astronomy club might give you the chance to compare viewing with ordinary / expensive lenses? Dunno if you can locate a local enthusiast with some decent kit - does a site like CloudyNights have a facility like that I wonder? - but I think seeing someone else's before spending your money might help you decide if you can actually see any difference between medium and expensive lenses. Bit like HiFi - I struggle to tell the difference between Decent and Really Expensive, so have never bothered to spend more than "decent" on sound quality :)
                         
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                        • Kristen

                          Kristen Under gardener

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                          P.S. I don't think that Zoom eyepieces have much merit, although I have been tempted by very high magnification zoom lenses. Changing lenses at high magnification, and trying to keep the object in view etc. is much more tricky than lower magnification, and "seeing" is rarely good enough to support high magnification, so I think it may be worth trading off lens quality for the convenience of zooming in-and-out.

                          But I've only ever considered the Nagler zoom ... and never found a second hand one at a price that I can afford!

                          http://www.company7.com/library/televue/orrtv3_6zoom.html

                          I couldn't find a comparison photo of a TeleVue Nagler (or Ethos) eyepiece against something more ordinary, such as a Plossl eyepiece, but this article perhaps best sums up what I am trying to describe as being the benefit:

                          http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=114&plain=TRUE#.UzTBOqh_vAk

                          but best if you can find someone who has some Nagler or Ethos eyepieces and have a look through their scope.
                           
                        • ARMANDII

                          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                          Yep, it can take one and half inch and 2inch, Kristen. I might just be tempted to take your advice and invest in a high end 32mm and a medium range 9mm to start me off. and slowly as I gain experience increase the range of high end eyepieces to what I "need".

                          I've learnt that from photography, Kristen, although there are some very fine zoom lenses around, and I buy and use mostly prime lenses for my photography obsession. I did see some of the telezoom eyepieces but I discounted them immediately because of the aberrations that they inherently have. I'll probably settle for the Nagler 31mm on the first buy and I haven't quite made up my mind for the 9mm:scratch::snork:

                          I've joined the Cloudy Nights Forum and will spend some time gleaning info etc from there. There's a lot of American stuff on it but it looks pretty good. I've also started two trial offers on some mags, so that along with my photographic and gardening magazines that I get every week through subscription will keep me busy, plus spending a lot of time scouring the Net for good sites and info.

                          I believe that there is a Astronomy Club in Nantwich, about 20 miles from me. The trouble is, without being cruel, some of the local clubs are in my experience not all that brilliant. I joined one photographic club only to find myself being incessantly chased and cornered to look at thousands of collections of boats, etc, that weren't that good:sofa: One Gardening Club I joined was run by a group of people who didn't even garden or grown anything, but just liked to organise things........I didn't stay long. As far as I know, I'm the only one in the area with a telescope so I might be struggling for comparisons:dunno::snork:

                          You and me both!!!!:heehee: I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to tell the differences in the eyepieces as yet so apart from the Naglar 31mm I'll play it safe and gain experience from medium level stuff first.

                          Thanks for the links, Kristen, they're a great help and I need all the help and advice I can get!!!:hate-shocked::snork:
                           
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