And treated like mushrooms. The late Rene Anselmo, founder of PanAmSat once wrote (and was used as the company motto): “TRUTH and technology will triumph over bull$!#& and bureaucracy.”
Because I believe in it ... and live it. That may well be the case shiney, but I am living in the land of the EU (in one of the countries peoples complain about) but ... has anyone on this forum heard me complain about where I live and how I live my life? I think a lot of you know both t'other half and I had 'high flying' jobs making big bucks both with company cars ... etc, etc, etc ... and it was hard going and a pretty boring life to be honest. Giving 40% plus of what we earned to the government was not good in our minds. We are living a better life here with more disposable income on our pensions than we ever had in the UK and we are paying our taxes there and here (nothing underhanded I can assure you). There is no way we would ever consider moving back to the UK to the hassle that goes on there. We eat out at least three times a week ... we were lucky we could do that three times a year there. Do we regret our move ... no way in hell.
To be honest, Pete, I would rather have the Commonwealth model than the EU model. The Commonwealth model is looser consisting of 53 countries with no other agenda than trading. It came into being in 1949 after the British Empire fell apart and the World was changing. It hasn't, and never has had, any ideas or powers to pass legislation affecting other members or create one currency. The EU on the other hand wants, and has got in the majority, control of member states higher levels of finances, laws and politics with the intention of becoming the One Federal State where the recognition of the nationalism rights and history of members is secondary if not erased. There have already been several attempts by the EU itself, without the democratic authority of the member states, to create such a Federal State which has only failed because it hasn't yet got the political power to do so by bullying it's members in doing so. I believe that the EU has become a separate Power and Organisation to it's members and regards such members as Subjects and thereby having lesser powers in decision making than itself. That is a dangerous concept in my opinion and one in which I think the UK should recognise and have no part in but unfortunately our Politicians have become blinded and frozen in the headlights of the oncoming economic train. We have already seen that one of the major "strengths" of the EU i.e:, the Single Currency, did not come to the aid of failing member states and, despite it's professed belief that all member countries are equal, it has been shown that some Countries, well, one, are more equal than others. But it has also underlined and strengthened the belief of the EU Bureaucracy that it will need to combine all it's members into one state rather than a group of 28 different nations pursuing their own politics, economic policies and recognising that they are a unique Nation albeit with a shared single currency.....and I believe that is what it will continue to strive to do. It can, and is, doing so by passing legislation recognised by member states [including the UK] that continues to weaken the internal powers of a independent Government while also introducing encroaching financial rules, regulations and powers binding those members closer and closer to the EU until all independent powers are lost. I have no doubt that Cameron will not get the things he wants from the EU and I have no doubt that the savvy British Public know that..........particularly, as Cameron has never actually defined to the British Public exactly what he wants to change or withdraw from.
I would doubt that very much indeed, Shiney. They know that the actual Political Parties who will end up being the next elected Government [Conservatives, Labour, or possibly another compromise of a Coalition] will not want to leave the EU and will fob off or delay any referendum. Don't forget that Labour and the Liberal Democrats say if they come into power they will not have a referendum. So despite there being a promise of referendum by Cameron it still had to be introduced as a Private Members Bill thereby delaying any need to give it any substance despite the Conservatives saying that they were "very pleased"
You could have done that anyway, with or without the EU. Brits were emigrating long before the EU was formed. Granted it took a little bit more effort, in that you had to apply to live in your intended new home country, but plenty of people did it. People also leave Britain to live in countries that are not in the EU. I wonder how they manage that.
That might be so, Victoria, but in "living where I live and how I live" you are being financially, supported lly by State Pension [and quite rightly so] contributions from your country of birth which puts you in a more independent and secure position that the local nationals around you whose financial world and job opportunities, security and pensions crumbled away, and still hasn't recovered to even a shadow of itself, since the Global and EU recession.
Hmmm ... I didn't have to apply to live where I do but I chose to do so. What I have done is applied, and been granted permanent residency here which means I have NO entitlement to UK facilities now except for emergencies should I visit there (which I have no intention of doing) ... because my entitlements have been transferred here. So, IF ... which there is no intention of ... I went back to the UK I would have to apply as a 'foreigner/immigrant' for anything I would need. Perhaps one should read up on what entitlements people get when they move within the EU ... and even more so, what one EXPECTS ... I have also lived in Canada and America ... do you want to talk about moving to other countries now ... ???? My husband is American and living as a non-EU citizen in Europe. What would you like to know?
Ah I see how its different now that Portugal is in the EU. Before it was, you would have had to apply for permanent residency, and you would have had to give up all your entitlements in the UK, and if you wanted to come back to live, you'd have to apply as a foreigner/immigrant. Whereas now that Portugal is in the EU... Hang on, I'm confused now.
To some extent true Big A, but we are not living solely by our State Pensions (t'other half isn't old enough yet ). The rest of your comment is gobbledegook to me, sunshine! xx
To get a general EU wide idea on ESI (Economic Sentiment Indicator), all the data in xlsx (excel) format is available from: http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/db_indicators/surveys/time_series/index_en.htm and the data which can be imported into excel (see the third worksheet in the file) is here: http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance...cuments/series/nace2_ecfin_1404/esi_nace2.zip Loading it into excel and generating graphs gives a quick idea of the general conditions/feelings. Rather interesting even though it's produced by the European Commission themselves.
I may be entirely wrong here, C1, but I think this is the same procedure for every EU country ... but I cannot confirm that as I have only gone through the procedure in Portugal. However, if you would like confirmation, I will post the EU laws for you tomorrow.
Hi Victoria, always good to talk to you. My point was that in a sense you are not as closely affected by the EU's state of affairs in that you're retired and financially secure with private investments and pensions and therefore are, in a way, standing on the sidelines and with a protected aspect and viewpoint. The Portugese National who is of employable age and has to support himself/herself and family does not that privilege and has suffered from the Recession. The Portugese official unemployment rate is around 15.6% at the moment [but probably a percentage or three more unofficially] and it is only just paying off it's EU loan with a lot more austerity to come for them. So in keeping with the theme of the thread in a sense you are living at a different level than the locals although living in a stricken EU country you are in a different position and can afford to say But I wonder if you would say so if in the reality of the normal Portugese citizen
I have quite a lot of Portuguese friends so I am not speaking without knowledge ... otherwise I would not have made such a comment.
I'm sure you're right. What I was getting at was that you said that you are pro EU (your choice, which I respect), because you are living it, and I was trying to figure out how your life choices (which again are your business and I respect that) are made possible by Portugal being in the EU. You've already said that you've also lived in non-EU countries, which demonstrates that being in the EU wasn't what made it possible for you to choose to live in another country, and you've said that you've had to give up all your rights in the UK in order to live full time in Portugal, which would be the same if instead of Portugal, you'd chosen a non-EU country. So, what I'm wondering is, how does the EU enrich your life? I'm especially interested in your perspective on this because unlike most of us, you have the benefit of the wisdom and experience gained from actually moving to and living in other countries, both within and outside of the EU.
