France build them wherever they like! They have 58 nuclear power stations and earn lots of money from exporting electricity. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-A-F/France/ Although it would have only a small effect, why don't our government make it a regulation that all new build properties must have solar panels built in (they already regulate insulation and other conservation methods). They cost very little when built in bulk and could supply a small but significant part of our demand. The national household average for electricity consumption is somewhere around 5,000 kWh. The standard 16 panel domestic solar power system produces approx. 2,500 - 4,000 kWh depending on whether the roof is facing the right way and whereabouts in the country you live. So a significant proportion of domestic use could be produced from home.
There is a nuclear power station about 5 miles away from me. There is also a wood fuelled power station about 2 miles from me. There's never been a peep out of the nuclear power station, but the wood fired one is regularly causing grief. Just this christmas past, its stockpile of scrap wood caught fire. Thousands of tonnes of it. The whole town was struck down with a mysterious chest lurgy for months, and when the fire was raging (for 3 weeks solid) major roads had to be closed because the smoke and the 'ash snow' was causing zero visibility. The nuclear plant is actually built right on a patch of coast that has become a nature reserve. Seal Sands its called. Lots of wildlife, in particular seals (hence the name) thrive there. Not because of the nuclear power station but in spite of it, which I think demonstrates how safe and clean it must be. I think another problem with nuclear is the waste. Everyone is (rightly) terrified of nuclear waste. We need to know that it is dealt with safely. I personally don't like some of the strategies I've heard of for dealing with it, such as simply burying it and hoping it never surfaces at any time in the next 10,000 years or so, but given that the Environment Agency allows 'safe limits' of leaks from 'conventional' industrial plants to be measured by the tonne (for example, the local chemical plant doesn't have to declare any leak of BENZINE if the amount released into the atmosphere is less than I think 10 tonnes in any 12 month period), nuclear still seems to be a lesser risk than many other things that we just accept. The waste from coal fire power stations includes suphuric acid, which eats the lining of your lungs and causes toxic acid rain that is damaging vast areas of forest as far afield from Britain as Norway. I agree. But again it all comes down to politics. When we, the peasant folk, are allowed to vote in elections, that's nothing more than an attempt to appease us and make us think we have some control. In fact we don't. The EU controls us, and industry, ultimately the oil industry, controls the EU and every other government. Its where all the money comes from. Now imagine you're the CEO at Shell or BP. Probably you're number some years because you don't get to the top of a huge company while you're still in your 20s. Currently you have every material possession you want or need, along with financial security beyond your imagination. At this point, do you rock the boat by declaring that you're giving it all up to pursue sustainable technology? Or do you sit tight, enjoy your last years on this earth, and let someone else worry about the future? We are constantly told that we need to source more fuel to meet our energy needs. We are so rarely told that we need to simply reduce our energy needs. I can't speak for other countries, but in Britain, everything is about energy/fuel use. The government bangs out about road congestion and transport infrastructure, but at no point do they tackle the reasons why teh roads are so full. A few years ago when I lived in Sheffield, a major project happened to improve traffic flow around the city. A new dual carriageway was put in and several junctions modified etc. The plans were published. I contact the council about it, because despite knocking down many buildings to clear the way, and laying all the new roads, there was no provision for cyclists. The reply I got was very negative. If, when planning these projects, better provision was made for pedestrians and cyclists, more people would walk/cycle to work and there'd be less congestion, less noise, less filth pumped into the air, less dependency on fuel etc, but they wont do it, because there'd also be less revenue raised from fuel duty, less revenue raised from taxes paid by the fuel producers etc. Meanwhile, while we're being told to unplug our phone chargers when not in use, heavy industry is extract oil from the middle east, bringing it on ships to Britain, where it goes into a chemical plant that uses so much energy that it has its own power station AND still buys electricity from the grid in such measures that the fuel bill is measured in £millions per DAY, where they produce plastic that then goes on other ships to China, to be made into rubbish that then goes onto more ships to come back here to be sold in our shops. We buy it, it lasts a few days then goes in the bin, broken. Then the rubbish very often goes on yet more ships to be carted half way round the world again to be 'recycled' by people so poor that they have to fight over rubbish to sort and sell.
I'd like them to go one step further. If its a new build, they could lay the plumbing for a ground source heat pump before they lay the foundation. You get 4 times as much energy out as you put in. E.g. if the pump that pumps the refrigerant around uses 1kW, the refrigerant can collect 4kW of energy from latent heat in the ground. I also think that when it comes to solar, the emphasis is incorrectly placed on photovoltaic cells. At their very best, photovoltaic cells can collect about 16% of the energy that falls on them, which is definitely worth having, but given that most energy use in the typical home goes to heating water, why not put the emphasis on solar water heaters instead (or as well), which can collect a much greater amount of the energy that falls on them. Also, not quite energy related, but definitely environment related, I don't understand why still have bare roofs. I'd love to see new builds with green living roofs. They mop up rain water, thus reducing the burden on the drains, they mop up various airborne toxins and particulates, they provide another layer of insulation to keep warmth in the building (and heat out during a heat wave), they provide more habitat for various creatures, and they look nice too. All these things would of course add to the expense, but is that such a big deal? If you buy an inefficient house cheaply, you're going to pay a premium over the time you live there anyway, so might as well pay a bit more up front, then save long term.
It's a big deal for house builders and they've lobbied against compulsory energy saving measures for many, many years, whilst commercial properties normally include everything available because the occupants are interested in whole life cycle costings. Even try suggesting that housing designs/layouts should be based upon making the roof of every property suitable for the retro fitting of solar panels and listen to the house builders squeal. Maybe it will take the EU to introduce some legislation making such stuff compulsory.
That's my point. The single biggest obstacle to common sense being applied is politics. Why should the government listen to the big property developers? Because the big companies control the political landscape. It costs around £600 per constituency to register a candidate for election. That's just to register someone. It doesn't cover any of the costs of publicity and such. Only the parties that are supported by big business can afford to set themselves up to even stand a chance of gaining power. Both politicians and business leaders know this, and both know that a political move not supported by big business means loss of lots of funding and therefore loss of power for the party involved.
If you listen to most peoples attitude, they just want a roof to call their own, start bumping up the price and its a no go, you just wont sell them big time. Most new houses are considered a stepping stone to something better in a few years, and many are apartments, where you dont actually own the roof anyway.
I spoke to a solar panel installer that said the cost of panels, inverter and other equipment necessary comes to approx. £1,500 per property. Two men can fit three properties in a day and an electrician can connect four or five a day and get them running. This is based on them being a development of housing so moving from one to another without a problem. Not a noticeable cost to a new build.
Good evening all I have just voted in the EURO elections (postal Vote)and sent it off I see that the Local elections are on the same day Thursday 22nd May Holding the two sets of elections on the same day is said to boost the chances of people voting, and will also save an estimated £10m in costs. The European elections had been due to be held on 5 June, but they are set to be brought forward to 22 May. There are 160 council elections due.
Thanks again Clueless and Shiney (and Pete and Scrungee), I've enjoyed reading your posts and thinking about the issues again. I was always sort of on the fence, so receptive to different points of view surrounding this . I would mention that the idea to install Solar Water heaters on new builds is a reality actually... with some builders at least. My friend brought a house with Newland Homes (I'd post a link to their website but I'm not a trusted forum member yet , you can google them if you are interested though) and every house on the development has one on the roof. They don't necessarily look wonderful, and I suppose the cost would be reflected in the asking price, but its definitely something they have carefully considered before going down that route.
I've found them very interesting too. As regards the new build having solar panels, most of the many newly built estates around here have about 8-12 panels on each house plus water heaters. I'm also interested to note the votes are about even for in and out but I'm certainly leaning more towards the out now, principally because I had two political leaflets through my door in regard to the MEP candidates - UKIP and Labour! We never get any information at elections and never ever catch sight of a candidate campaigning door to door. I'm totally disenchanted with all of them. And even when you see them on their TV spots, they're either rubbishing the other parties or making promises you just KNOW they'll never keep, can't keep and have no intention of keeping in any case! And Victoria, as regards liking where you live and being financially secure, so do I and am I but it's nothing to do with the current political status quo. I have financial security because I was lucky enough to have superannuated job which I retired from in 1989 and have been a grateful recipient of said pension ever since. That's 25 years already and with any luck, I hope to still be drawing on it for another 25 years! I doubt that anyone in these days will be so fortunate. I am also lucky to be a home owner with no mortgage, courtesy of the Right to Buy scheme. One thing Mrs Thatcher did right imo! But I still don't forgive her for the destruction of the mines and shipyards up here in the North East. And many other industries, leaving millions of men and boys without any hope of employment for most of their adult lives. She wouldn't have got away with that down south! In short, there isn't a single politician, EP or Westminster, that I would trust a with a brass farthing. Can't trust a one of them as far as I can spit - and that ain't far! I'm still none the wiser about what the EU actually does except provide a gravy train for those elected to Brussels and a sump draining away a lot of out GDP! Oh why can't we be transported to the world of Star Trek!
Well, if nothing else I am pleased to see some of the results from the elections last week, and in particular I am happy to see the usual 'big three' get a bit of a bloody nose. All the talk now seems to be coming from two angles, either that people are not happy with being a part of Europe and feel that it is not working, or saying that it is because people feel disaffected with politics and politicians. For me, it was really simple when it came down to the cross in the box: Labour - Although many try to lay all the blame for the financial crisis at Labour's door, it was in fact a global crisis, the bulk of which started in America with toxic debt and simply cascaded from there; but there were a number of things that went on during Labour's tenure that were clearly detrimental to the country, and on a number of occasions they took those decisions without asking the public or against public opinion (going to war in Iraq being only one!); FAR too many lies, far too much deceit and a current leader that comes across in such a way that he inspires no confidence at all (I wouldn't put him in charge of running a bath, let alone a country) Tories - Being a Scot by birth, and growing up in the late 70's early 80's and seeing first hand the poverty that Maggie caused by closing pits, steel yards and ship yards; I agree that right to buy was a good idea - - BUT, the money raised from it should have been ring-fenced and ploughed straight back into publicly owned social housing. As with everything else, it was sold off and the money used for goodness knows what, leaving us now facing ever increasing costs in terms of benefits alone just to try and house people. That, and the fact that the Tories remain nasty and sleekit in my view means that I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote Tory. Liberal Democrat - well, they deserved everything they got. The rot set in at the last general election when they chose to go into a coalition with the Tories; the two parties could not be further misaligned if they tried. At the last election, the Lib Dem's accured a lot of votes from disillusioned Labour voters (myself included) and then instantly betrayed those voters by going into a coalition with the tories; then there were the lies and un-kept promises (student fees for example) - in short, the decisions taken by Mr Clegg and co essentially destroyed their party. The contempt from all three parties continued - and they continued to fail to take notice of the rising discord from the public; the message that the British public were fed up with ALL of the main three parties was plain to see at the last general election; did they react to it? Nah, instead they chose to call UKIP supporters 'swivel-eyed loons' and branded them racist. The fact that neither David Camerson, Nick Clegg or Ed Milliband are so far out of touch with their electorate only further damaged them as far as I am concerned. Nigel Farage has not been scared to be involved with people out and and about, and he has taken quite a bit of a ribbing at times along the way (and taken it in good spirit) - can you envisage Ed Milliband or David Cameron on 'Have I Got News For You?' - - - neither can I. And that nicely brings me on to Europe; the comments that have been made about anyone being openly critical of immigration inferring that they were just being racist or xenophobic are utter nonsense. Obviously the rules of being part of Europe means that EU citizens have the right to go and reside wherever they please, however there was nothing done to ensure that living standards/benefit levels etc were harmonized across the EU; all that happened then was that people from the countries with the poorer standards simply moved to the countries with the higher standards. As I see it, the rise in the UKIP vote is nothing to do with racism - - indeed, if it was racism, the BNP would have thrived. Its about the desire to regain control of our own country. Its about not having to pay a small fortune into something for very little in return. Its about not having silly rules and unnecessary regulations imposed upon is (straight bananas etc?) Its about being able to control the numbers of people that come into and go out of the country. Anyone that wishes to come and reside in the UK should be welcomed, but they should also be made aware that whilst they are welcome they have certain responsibilities to ensure that they contribute to society and they accept that certain traditions or practices may well be different here than those of their country of origin; and more importantly that whilst they have the right to their own beliefs and practices, they do not have the right to demand that others in this country change their beliefs of practices. There is a great deal of displeasure with Europe, and its clear given the results this morning that this is not only the case here in the UK, but there is also a great deal of displeasure with the 'usual faces' in politics in this country. I also wonder how many people didn't vote UKIP, despite wanting to, lest their vote be 'wasted' as a protest vote. We could very well be seeing the beginnings of a massive change to the way politics in this country works.
