Israel

This is not something I know a great deal about, and I wonder if I should actually start a thread on this, but for years now, I've thought Israel were out of line and need a good shove from someone with a bit more clout than they have.
I'm guessing the backing from the West, and probably America mostly keeps them safe and able to be the bully boys of the middle east.
There are lots of things that have gone on in that area over the years, and mostly Israel seems to be the one causing the trouble.

I'm not saying I support the other side either, just that they wont be happy until they can take over the whole area.
I'd be interested to here what others, with more knowlege than me, have to say on the subject.

 

The following is based upon what I remember from school, so some of it is vague (or worse, not 100%)

The nation of Isreal dates back to ancient times. It was over the centuries invaded by the Roman, Turks, Egyptians and Syrians amongst others. As the Jews were marginalised, discriminated against and worse they dispersed over Europe.
Towards the end of WW1 the british government (partially to curry favour from UK Jews) proposed a Palestinian state under British control for the Jews to call a homeland, loosely following the ancient boundaries of Isreal. A deal was done to establish this with the French if I remember correctly.
It wasn't until after WW2 that the newly formed UN supported an independent Isreali state and that came about in 1947 (?).
Bully boys? If I had been persecuted and exterminated through the centuries I too would defend myself robustly. History has taught the Jewish people that if you are reacting it is too late - far better to be proactive. People seem only too happy to forget that the people of Gaza gave safe haven to Hamas (a terrorist organisation) before they went the whole hog and elected them to govern them. Sorry, but if you elect a terrorist mob whose avowed aim is to drive the Jews out (with support from several Arab states) then missiles have to be expected.

They don't want to, just to be safe in their homeland. I agree that they can be hamfisted at times, but the aim is not to build an empire.


I know that I'm out on a limb with some of my beliefs, but that is how I feel. It is also one of the main reasons that I despise religion.

 

I don't know the ins and outs either, but I suspect that the majority of people on both sides of the boundary have no interest at all in fighting each other.

I think both warring factions are just plain and simple idiots. Neither side can ever win. Hamas can't defeat Israel, and I dread to think how many future militants Israel is making by killing civilians, including kids.

 

They were already militants. The birth of this modern militancy dates back to WW1 when we took the land back for the Jewish people.
I'm sorry but children are just a commodity over there - fathers burst with pride when their child blows himself (or herself) up in a Tel Aviv shopping precinct.

 

I have always felt ( having been brought up a Christian , told tales from the Bible of the struggles of this land) that this is where the devil and the good guy does battle.
Good versus evil - the eternal fight - that we all suffer and feel as we stand by and witness. I sometimes wish that we didn't have such acute media access on an hour by hour basis. I know I'm selfish, and I feel guilty for it - but I just want to enjoy my life and not harm others or be harmed by them.
Is it too much to ask?
Jenny namaste

 

But who is the good guy?

No it's not. Just what the Israeli people want actually.

 

What I do know is that I am very very lucky to have been born in a peaceful country,
Jenny

 

Goodness knows that no one wants to see innocent people being killed by bombs and missiles but we are led to understand that at least Israel is targeting specific areas and giving warnings of attack. Hamas is firing hundreds of rockets daily into Israel in an indiscriminate fashion, of course Israel has a right to defend itself.

 

Not only into Isreal - a small percentage of them are failing to get out of Gaza before they fall back to earth.

 

I am from a long line of Jews. I don't see that violence will solve this issue but I do understand how persecution and grief can lead to it. I will never condone war/fighting/killing but I do believe that everyone has the right to live their homes without fear of persecution.

 

I think we have to be careful not to generalise. Yes, Hamas seems to be a terrorist organisation (I don't really follow their politics so I'm not knowledgeable on that), but are all the people in Gaza Hamas supporters? Somehow I doubt it. I know that in the UK our government is Conservative/LibDem, but does that mean that everyone in the UK is a conservative or libdem supporter?

The fact is, strip away the politics, and what you are left with is people. Men and women, young and old, fat and thin, hard working and lazy gits. Just people. And as it stands at the moment, people who don't actually want a fight are being killed, on both sides. People like those hiding inside a school while the UN begged Israel to suspend bombardment until the innocent civilians could be evacuated.

If I lived in the Gaza strip and I saw soldiers from across the border killing my neighbours, I'd be pretty angry at them. Likewise if I was in Israel and I saw my neighbours killed in a rocket attack from Gaza, I'd be pretty resentful of them too. This is the problem. This is why current actions on both sides are pure stupidity. Not politics, just stupidity. It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how the current strategy can only result in ongoing expense, hatred, suffering and death on both sides.

 

And the USA provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and military supplies to Israel (are they still doing that?), and the EU gives money to re-build what the Israelis have destroyed, and Tony Blair gets a massive salary for failing to achieve anything. I could go on and on ..... and so will they.

 

A blighted land - forever and a day...

 

And part of the problem as Shiney mentioned is that when it suits either side best, they will still refer to the law as it applied in Ottoman times. There isn't a "good" and a "bad" side; both have legitimate claims depending on which historic habitation, treaty or agreement you choose to go back to. Those living in Gaza have nowhere to go out of Gaza unless its the sea or the desert without safe passage and most claim that they would be being driven out of the last small space they can call their own. Israel generally claims an historic right as well as having been given neighbouring land and that they're only keeping what's theirs. As well as the tragedy of the death and destruction it's so sad that this land wouldn't even be considered to be worth fighting over by most of the world's population because it has such poor natural resources anyway. Gaza is essentially already one huge refugee camp. In the middle east there are huge third generation refugee camps; families where no-one has ever lived anywhere other than a camp. Is it any wonder that they can be manipulated and that they live on the hope of something better from whoever makes the best promises?