Illegal immigrants

There are often other social factors Kirsten, it's easier for a 14 year old to say it's not cool, rather than explain he is picking his 6 year old sister up from school so Mum can work.
Also many travel miles on buses to get to schools. There are parents making 6 journeys a day dropping off and picking mixed aged children up as it is. Off peak this is just about manageable, if the family can afford to do it.
It would also be impractical to expect a mum to be dragging out a 3 and 6 year old to pick up an 8 year old on a bus at 7 o'clock plus in the evening.
As a positive, local scouts, brownies, cubs air cadets etc are all over subscribed. Dance, gym and drama clubs are well attended. So it is often not the will that is lacking.
I agree that there should be a more holistic approach to helping families raise and educate children. I mourn the loss of the Sure Start programme this has been sacrificed on the alter of the bankers crisis. It took a holistic approach to supporting families by offering nursery places and parental support. Children were prepared for school and early intervention could be accessed for children who need extra support.
The programme also educated families on health and social responsibility. The very best part of this program was that it was free or at low cost, so many professional folk took advantage of it too. Although this was frowned upon by some it was exactly the link that is needed. This social mix causes a ripple effect and raises aspiration and expectation which is key to education.

 

I don't buy that. It might be a fair few in some specific schools, but it isn't 80% of the kids in education as a whole. The [university] kids I was talking to are on courses with an entrance requirement of 4 x A's, they went to some of the best state schools in the land, they (by their own accounts) had fantastic facilities (and deplorable, IMHO, exam resitting tactics to fudge their stats), and still all the extra curricular facilities were not well attended. I still think they should be compulsory - headmaster's exceptions allowed etc. of course, but not 80% of them excused.

The exact years where this should start needs thinking about, but that same Mum is going to [at some time] have one kid at Primary and another at Secondary, perhaps in town miles away, right now. The secondary kid will currently be catching the late bus home on occasion (extra curricular activity, or detention, whatever) so little difference if that kid always comes home on the late bus.

I appreciate that there are folks for whom any change to the system will cause hardship, and for sure its a PITA during the time that you have one @ Junior and another @ Secondary. I don't think that is a reason not to do it, it just needs care to try to pick the best route - and that is unlikely to include accommodating everyone. The local state schools around here have huge traffic snarlups with parents in big cars at dropping off / picking up time. Sure that isn't all parents, but most parents would be capable of handling any pickup time

Not something I am familiar with, but from your description it sounds excellent, and I agree it needs to be free

The thing about making it compulsory is you then have a quorum. You have enough kids to have a pair of teams, enough to put on a play, etc. If you allow more freedom in the system - people can go elsewhere, or opt out - then that quorum is at risk, and the thing is likely to wither and die.

 

The example is a generic one Kirsten, the problems are multi factorial and widespread.
My kids all went to state schools and all got good university degrees. At one time I too held your view. But after years on state school governing bodies I feel there is no magic cure all.
Remember kids get expelled from private schools, too.
We also have parents paying years of fees in private prep schools only to find they have to engage a private tutor to get their kids through local grammar entrance exams or to be up to the standard curriculum in state school. Prep. school only have to prep for their own higher school entrance criteria.
Economics and ability to learn means there is also a well beaten path where disenchanted kids end up in state school. These kids were once valued as being a positive influence, but they too could be switched off to education and disruptive.
This is not an attack on private schooling as I too considered it for mine. It was my husbands experience of a well respected school education which led to hours away from home, that swayed us to look more locally. That was right for us, but maybe not for you and again we both have a right to choice
Statistics can be manipulated back and forth and we can all offer opinion on what we think is best, however it is proven programmes such as Sure Start that truly effect change, as good education starts at home where our primary beliefs are set.

 

Indeed, amongst them plenty of Rich Kids who don't think that they need to lift a finger. I'm definitely not an outright advocate for Private schooling - I would describe myself as wanting to bring public sector education up to the capability of the private sector, and I definitely abhor when politicians have a go at dumbing down the private sector "as a perceived solution" - its a political football of course. Given that I am paying for my kids education I feel that plenty of the teachers are below-par. Perhaps the general assumption is that private schools attract all the Rock Star teachers? - sure they have a few, probably all school do? but it isn't wall-to-wall brilliant teachers, and some (too many in my mind, and for my £, but it-is-how-it-is) are considered by both parents and pupils alike to be "poor". However, the pupils still get good academic results - not my speciality! but that may be in part down to zero truism, prep done during fixed quiet periods within the school day, and so on.

Much more important to me is the breadth of the education, and to my mind that comes down to opportunity. My kids have everything they could want on-tap. They even have a house master/mistress kicking their butts into having a go at something, so there are very few pupils who manage to get through their time there without finding something that floats their boat.

It is that breadth that I want all kids to benefit from.

 

I think this is where we agree unreservedly!

 

Can anyone explain to me why education is so difficult and complicated these days?

I just went to skool, from 9am till 4 pm, then came home did some homework and in the summer went out with a mate.
Had a few cigs, climbed a few trees in the park, went to bed at 10pm and got up next day for skool.


It all seems such hard work these days, but still they say kids cant read.

If anyone had suggested I spent longer at skool doing more organised activities I'd have run a mile from the place.
Basically I hated skool, I just wanted to be outside in those days, doing something practical and that dont mean sport.

I'm glad I did go to school, but at the same time its not the beginning and end of all things great, it might be for some, but not for others.

Why do grandparents seem to spend all day playing with the kids when they look after them?
Cant kids play on their own anymore.

 

PE at my daughter's school (a top performing state school) was known a Pointless Exercise.

But she was enthusiastic about horse riding, so over the years we spent about £15,000 on lessons, equipment, fuel, riding holidays. etc. and she had a damn good time before she had to spend more time on A levels.

 

They can read, but they cannot write, spell or form sentences.

I had no choice - detention!

Didn't we all? I liked sport though - I did gymnastics outside of school, round the village tag and carried on rugby after school leaving.

Nope!

 

I've heard this said many times. Is there actually any evidence for this or is it just the classic British stereotyping of kids?

I know many kids. They can all read, write, spell, and form coherent sentences.

 

Sadly not. Read any formal letter, essay or simply listen to them talking. They have a huge vocabulary, yet rarely use the correct words in a correctly formatted sentence. We receive probably twenty letters a year from school leavers looking for work (when they phone we ask them to send us a handwritten letter introducing themselves) and most are embarrassing. Maybe they lie about there grades?
Simply read a GCSE paper - it will tell you all you need to know. It did six years ago when Sue and I were helping Matthew with his revision. My sister has the same issue with my niece who has just started university.
What is humbling is that my daughter who was born and raised in The Netherlands has probably got a better grasp of the English language than I have. Her handwriting is still awful though!

The thing is though that I'm not having a pop at the kids. It is the fault of the education system. The kids are not stupid. They have simply been educated badly.

 

I'm pretty sure that this is the classic case of looking back through rose tinted glasses. My son can read and write and spell (simple stuff) and form coherent sentences and he's only 5. When I was his age I was still struggling to spell my name. I don't think we even started the alphabet until first year infants. Preschool was called play school back then because that's all it was, play.

I have no doubt that some schools are failing. Probably as a result of being squeezed to breaking point financially. But I'm not convinced its the norm.

School leavers in general are not, and have never been the best with language. Perhaps that's because they are still learning. But I think generally they do alright. There's a kid at our martial arts club that's about 6. He regularly comes over to chat with me and CL1.1 before class starts and the way he speaks, sometimes I have to consciously remind myself he's only 6. He strikes up conversations about some fairly intellectual stuff for a 6 year old.

I also have long believed that in Britain, we are a nation of kiddy haters. Probably not intentionally, and not individually, but as a society we are. Go down town with a pushchair and its not long before this becomes quite clear. Or there's the 'Mosquito' devices, things actually designed to repel kids, and even named to associate them with blood sucking insects. Or the classic sign we see on the wall in just about every open space, "No ball games". This is why if I see kids being publicly denigrated, I always ask if it is just opinion or if there is supporting evidence. I'm not saying there isn't any supporting evidence, but when I ask, I always seem to only get anecdotal evidence rather than anything solid.

 

I think too much text speak creeps in.
Also there seems to be this attitude that as long as you can make yourself understood, it doen't matter if you cant spell.

 

it doesn't matter if you can't spell

it does to me,
Jenny