Pension help needed please

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by NorthantsGeezer, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. NorthantsGeezer

    NorthantsGeezer Total Gardener

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    Will they tax my lump? or will this have been accounted for when doing the plan estimate?
     
  2. Scrungee

    Scrungee Well known for it

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    I didn't pay tax on my lump, only on the interest it attracted.

    https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension

    £6,000 p.a. doesn't seem enough to live on.
     
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      Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
    • NorthantsGeezer

      NorthantsGeezer Total Gardener

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      No wonder peeps get confused . So if you get less than 10k...no tax, but if you get a lump of say 30k....no tax? :scratch: I am not complaining by the way :snork:

      Is 6k not enough even for a single man living a simple life? No extravangances etc.
      Obviously I would like a savings pot too, as I say. The 6k was just a stray figure for illustration purposes anyway :) The plan estimate shows higher than that anyway :)
       
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      I would say that £6k is nowhere near enough to live on. There are many expenses that you need to calculate in your budget.

      Just for a start:
      Council tax
      Gas, electric, water
      Telephone, internet
      Maintenance on house
      Insurance
      Food and drink
      Clothes
      Fares
      There are lots of other expenses such as cleaning materials, toilet paper, newspaper (although the last two could be the same :heehee:), even things such as headache pills etc. ...
       
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      • NorthantsGeezer

        NorthantsGeezer Total Gardener

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        I have considered all of those :)
        The money advice service added an important one for me...health insurance ! (but you did say insurance :blue thumb: )
         
      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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        Good point. But the capital gains tax is only calculated on any profit from the house. It would be fair to assume there would be a profit of course, simply due to inflation, but I guess you could keep that under control with some careful planning as to when to sell and buy properties. Some careful thought required I guess.

        As for the tax on rent income, again I have no doubt you're right, but my mate rents his house out because he works away. He just lets the letting agency deal with everything for him. He gets a monthly payment off them which is what's left of his rent after tax, agency fees, maintenance budget etc. He says it barely covers the mortgage, but at least the house is still his, and in effect someone else is paying for it for him. I must admit I have some moral opinions on renting, but my mate must be one of a rare breed of fair landlords. Before renting his house, he researched the going rate, decided that was simply too much and nobody should have to pay that, and then told the letting agency to cap the rent at a maximum rate that is about £200 per month less than what the agency said he should charge. My mate doesn't even have to fix anything, the agency sorts all that and just recoups its costs from a fixed monthly amount that comes out of the rent.
         
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          Your mate is renting out his only home so there are different aspects to the situation. I understand that you are thinking of buying a second home to rent out for income/pension.

          It's not normal for agencies to sort out tax so I suggest your mate checks with them. I think people now have to be licenced to deduct tax for you (not sure).
           
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          • longk

            longk Total Gardener

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            Before I went out to Oz I inherited some money. I went to a friends dad for advice about buying a house to rent out as he was an estate agent before he retired. He offered me a share of a company he was setting up to develop properties - 5 equal partners investing £30000 for a ten year period. I won't bore you with the details, but here is the important point. You need to set things up so that one of the others cannot risk your investment through their personal debt, fallings out and so on. You need a watertight agreement so that they cannot force an early sale, use their stake as security for loans or expose you to their debt in any way at all.
            Following these rules we had a business that ran its ten year life without a cross word and rewarded us handsomely. I was very lucky to have had the opportunity and it allowed me the finances to build for my retirement by building up a portfolio of my own since then.
            I have a pension plan which frankly is not worth a light so this is how I'm achieving my aims.

            Another point. You need to remember that when you have tenants you have obligations;
            1] fast and effective repairs when required. So need funds in reserve (or at least, guaranteed access to funds) for major repairs at the drop of a hat.
            2] you have a duty not to risk the roof over their heads by overstretching yourself financially.

            Not forgetting that you need tenants. So will either handle it yourself (solicitors cost money, empty properties etc.) and require extra accounting for the deposits held, or use an agency who charge, but who also may guarantee rents.

            One final thing to consider - what are your long term aims? Do you
            a] want to hang on to the property and supplement a pension with the rental income from a paid off asset? You will still have the maintenance obligations when you're retired.
            or
            b] be financially (and commitment) independent for the last 20/30 years of your life by selling up. If so you will need more than the one property. A portfolio will cost you money to build up above and beyond the rental that comes in. I know - a large chunk of my wage from my day to day job is lent to my property company. It's cheaper than the banks and I get it back in the end.

            So those are my thoughts.
             
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            • JWK

              JWK Gardener Staff Member

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              My current company has taken over many others, so we have at least 12 different pension schemes, none of them are the same. The point I'm making is that each scheme will vary on how much it reduces the pension if you take it early, the size of the lump sum and even what age you're allowed to retire. You'll need to find out what rules your scheme applies.

              In my previous company the final salary scheme applied a reduction value of 1.68% per year below the age of 65. But when they suddenly ran out of work, as an incentive to encourage people to leave the company they didn't apply the reduction values for those of us that volunteered for redundancy. I took the gamble that once the voluntary redundancy window closed I might then be made compulsorily redundant without being able to get at the pension. They also paid us a redundancy package based on how many years service we had, so combined with getting a non-reduced pension it was a 'no-brainer' in my situation.

              So if there is any chance of volunteering for redundancy and collecting your pension as well as a redundancy package at the same then that is worth investigating.

              The maximum tax free lump sum was 25% of my pension pot. With final salary schemes you don't actually have a pot so they used a factor of 20 to estimate the size. So for example if my pension was £10k/year then the imaginary pension pot was £200k and I would therefore get £50k tax free cash lump sum (plus the redundancy of course).

              However most advisors will say don't touch your final salary scheme, i.e. don't take a lump sum out of it or reduce it in any way. Mine is inflation proofed and pays 50% to my spouse on death so matching that is very difficult.

              Instead put as much as you can afford into AVCs. I paid AVCs to the match the 25% lump sum value, so in effect I was able to wirhdraw all my AVCs tax free without touching the final salary portion.

              I hope that makes sense. I know some companies don't allow AVCs to be treated in this way so you'll have to ask again.

              Yes you would lose it from both (assuming your scheme is the same as mine)
               
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              • Scrungee

                Scrungee Well known for it

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                There appears to lots of stuff missing from their budget calculator. Mrs Scrungee used to do that sort of thing for a living, helping people in financial trouble, negotiating with creditors and representing them in court, and she reckoned that none of them include everything, look at all of them and keeping adding stuff they've missed.

                + Newspapers, magazines, books, etc.
                + Dentist + Optician + Prescription charges (free for over 60's) & Haircuts
                + Hobbies, subscriptions, etc.
                + Holidays (incl. passport renewals) and days out
                + Computer replacement, anti-virus & software
                + Xmas & birthday presents & cards, Valentines flowers, etc.
                etc.
                + Potting compost, seeds, plants, fertilizer, pesticides, etc.


                If your pension is index linked you may find that if taking voluntary redundancy that the index linking may not then apply until you reach state retirement age - something to check.

                Another thing about early retirement is that you will not be paying NI contributions on your pension, so you be missing 6 or 7 years? of contributions that could reduce your state pension unless you pay for them - another thing to check.
                 
                Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
              • NorthantsGeezer

                NorthantsGeezer Total Gardener

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                Jeez, no wonder I never understand :sad: it's so complex :sad:
                I get free eye tests (but not glasses), free prescriptions, I don't read, don't subscribe, don't holiday, don't hobby, don't valentine, don't buy presents, but I do compute :blue thumb:

                I have no intentions of being skint, but I just won't be loaded like some. I am very simple.
                 
              • Freddy

                Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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                I can't rightly remember now, but I think as long as you've paid in for 35 years (might be 40), you get the full state pension.
                 
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                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  Good point Freddy, it changed from 40 to 30 a few years ago then they are putting it back up to 35 next year, it's mind boggling keeping up with it.

                  You can check here to get a forecast and then decide if you need to top up:

                  https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-statement
                   
                • Scrungee

                  Scrungee Well known for it

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                  Yes, a relatively recent change and it's now only 30 years https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility unfortunately Mrs Scrungee only worked for 13 years (before joining me in retirement), far less than the time she was at school/uni, and 5 years of those 13 years was 50% FTE job share, and another 3 was only 4 days a week when she was studying for her second degree. Crikey, that's only 9.9 years FTE working life, she got off very lightly! (but we both had highly paid jobs, worked hard and saved hard so we could quit early)
                   
                  Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  She will also get credit for the time she claimed child benefit for kids under 16.
                   
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