Ghostly Girl

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Phil A, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. nFrost

    nFrost Head Gardener

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    Very bizarre, thanks anyway.
     
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    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      Depends on how you view the term 'magic'. If you think of it in terms of fairies and Harry Potter and the likes, then it is indeed bizarre. But if you think of it in more natural terms, in ways that many ordinary folk think anyway without even associating it with the word 'magic', then its not so bizarre at all really. As gardeners, we often look at signs presented to us by nature when deciding what action (if any) we should take in the care of our gardens. Some signs are pretty obvious, its freezing out, protect the tender plants. Some less so, its warm, has been for a while, but the trees have still not shown any visible new buds at the start of the year. So hold off on sowing/planting tender stuff because the trees 'know' another cold snap is coming. Many people will grow certain plants because superstition says it brings luck in some way. Some plants don't get brought into the house because its bad luck. Some people know that if you treat a certain plant in a certain way, it will do well, even if there is no logical explanation (I think @shiney grew turnips as a barrier to couch grass). No logic to it, but by observation, we just know that some things just work. Most of us would not use the word 'magic' for any of this, because we have an ingrained fear of the word because it was actually only 61 years ago that it stopped being a criminal offence practice or associate with it in any way, and of course the most powerful organisation in the world has successfully spent the last 2000 years brainwashing people into believing that you're some sort of freak for even thinking about it. So we can use whatever terminology we like, but it fits the original very general definitions of magic, so lets not dress it up, lets just call it what it is:)
       
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      • longk

        longk Total Gardener

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        No scientist will rule out paranormal/religious phenomena until he/she can say that they have disproved them beyond any doubt. Their personal belief may be that it is a load of old baloney, but a scientist deals in proving theory with facts.
        I believe in gods about as much as I believe in the monarchy - the former is a gut feeling and the second is a conclusion based on the facts.
         
      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        Quite correct :blue thumb:. I had been told to do that by an old gardener (he'd be 128 years old if he was still alive). We were being invaded by couch grass from the derelict garden next door and pulling it up as it came through the hedge (all 230ft length of it :hate-shocked:) didn't seem to work. We planted turnips and it stopped it completely. :hapydancsmil:

        On the point of 'science/magic'. It's accepted that there were many things that were termed 'magic' until 'science' explained the phenomena. There are still many parts of the explained 'science' that are being proven incorrect because of newer theories and better observations. So science dispelling (I like that word :heehee:) magic isn't always correct.

        Not directly related but a proven piece of science being disproved has just come to mind. When I was at school :old: we were taught that the planet Mercury kept one face permanently towards the sun and didn't deviate from that. Now it has been proven that it does.
         
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          That's an observed fact :blue thumb:. I've seen the royal family :heehee:
           
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          • longk

            longk Total Gardener

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            Exactly. And I can say that from the facts in front of me I have no more belief in them than I do most politicians!
             
          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            Ah!!! But are they facts? :heehee:
             
          • longk

            longk Total Gardener

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            Well, the royal family does exist. And thus my belief is based on the facts - just the facts lead me to not believe in them :snork: But gods have no facts to back their existence up so I cannot believe in them either! :heehee:
             
          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            I was really talking about the 'facts in front of you' about politicians. As they seem to lie the moment they open their mouths, I'm not sure there are many 'facts' about them. There are plenty of stories in the media - and my thoughts on the media are censored! :heehee:
             
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            • HarryS

              HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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              I think Professor Brian Cox summed up the possible existence of ghosts quite well..

              Brian Cox " It's my view that the existence of ghosts would contravene the second law of thermodynamics. The principle of the conservation of energy, and the fact that entropy always increases; you'd be hard put to throw that away. You'd have to rip the book up; that's what it would imply if you saw a ghost. I would say, "I could not be any more surprised than I am by the fact that thermodynamics appears to be s**t."
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                Magic, Science, Supernatural, Superstition, are all words that can, and are, interpreted in so many ways and perspectives by each individual depending on their own standpoint.

                And will be again and again as that is what Science is about, theorising, testing, proving, establishing as a fact, and then further theorising, testing, and then confirming, developing or disproving the fact.

                Magic is in most opinions:

                1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

                2. The art that purports to control or forecast natural events,effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural.
                3.
                a.
                The practice of using charms, spells, or rituals to attemptto produce supernatural effects or control events in nature.
                b. The charms, spells, and rituals so used.
                4. The exercise of sleight of hand or conjuring for entertainment.
                5. A mysterious quality of enchantment:

                From my standpoint there is a difference that separates Science from the rest, the first being one of logic, proving of evidence until it is recognised as fact. The others are supported by anecdotes, belief of things that aren't necessarily wanted to be proved , hope, and other factors..........factors, but not facts.:dunno::snork::coffee:
                 
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                • SharonL

                  SharonL Gardener

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                  My fella had a similar experience many years ago, ]Had a passenger in the car at the time as a witness, swears up and down he hit a person who appeared from nowhere in the middle of a road late one night, got out searching for a body and found nothing. Even rang the cops who came and checked, he says it was only after a while that one of the policemen asked what the date was then called the search off, stating they go through the same rigmarole every year on that date. I guess some would say these are urban-myths but when it involves people you know, it makes me wonder :yikes:

                  Although I'm a bit cynical about apparitions in photos, I always loved Hammer Horrors :wub2: my favourite actors as a kid were Peter Cushing & Vincent Price :yahoo:
                   
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                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    You'll have to come to Shiney's Open Day which he and his Good Lady hold every year.........then you'll see two Ghostly, Frightening Apparitions floating around..........Ziggy and me!!!:hate-shocked::runforhills::heehee:
                     
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                    • Phil A

                      Phil A Guest

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                      Anyone that knows the A303 as you come off the dual carriageway at Mere, you go up a steep hill where the radio cuts out.....

                      Overtaking lane that finishes at the top of the hill.

                      Driving up there at about 6 in the morning I noticed a set of headlights in the wing mirror, thought that they didn't have enough road to pass me so I slowed down to let them in.

                      There was no car to let in :yikes: Nothing either side of me :yikes:
                       
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                      • clueless1

                        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                        As this is a gardening forum, how much of what we understand about plants is based on anecdotal evidence compared to proven facts that can be repeated in lab conditions? :)

                        I think it was only last year when scientists found a hint of evidence of quantum mechanics going on in the process of photosynthesis. Even the top boffins can't fully explain how a plant works. Its magic.

                        On a larger scale, the accepted model of the universe doesn't work. There is about 70% of 'stuff' that is unaccounted for. The equations only work if the boffins make up stuff to fill about 70% of the universe, and they call this made up 'stuff' dark matter. Yet they search and search and search for it and find nothing. They can't even theorise how they might detect it even if it does exist. The whole universe is magic.

                        Logic doesn't even really play much of a part at the beginning. Yet people study it. Where is the Newton's logic in the idea that a completely invisible force somehow pulls everything down? The effect is easily observed, yet nearly 300 years later, the boffins are still arguing about how gravity actually works. Its magic. It will all still be magic even when (if) we have a rock solid, provable understanding of it all.

                        Or, several billion years ago, we are told, there was a random explosion. Nobody has any idea what exploded, but it is established as fact that something exploded. And over several billion years, dust accumulated into a solar system, then somehow, and nobody can explain how, a load of chemicals combined, and become able to move and became self aware. See, magic :)
                         
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