Should Ched Evans be allowed back into football?

Hold down a chord?

 

@clueless1 - read the Court of Appeal link that WOO put up. |The whole thing was planned from the outset. She agreed to have sex with his mate not knowing that he had sent Evans a text effectively saying "game on". Was it rape - not sure, but it certainly was not right.

You're right to say that we went out looking for action as lads. But hand on my heart I can say that if the girl was shedded I didn't take advantage as I was raised to be better than this footballer. What they did was wrong.

 

I have done. There are a lot of unanswered questions in it. Just a few that spring to mind are these: If the goal of the night had been to pick up a girl or girls for sex, given that we're talking about people here who are hardly short of a bob or two, why didn't they just hire a prostitute? It would have been simpler and safer than risking getting done for rape. Why did the girl go to the hotel? If she was not consenting, ie being raped, why did the night porter who went to listen in decide there was no cause for concern?

The most important question in my mind is this. Who gets to decide later on that consent could not have been given because a person able to walk, talk, order a pizza, is suddenly 'unconscious on drink and drugs', drink which the account suggests she had drank before the alleged offence, and drugs which a doctor said had been taken several days before.

The important point I'd like to make here is that I am not judging whether the accused is guilty or innocent. That's not my job. The point I want to make is that there appears to be reasonable grounds for doubt, and in English law that used to mean that a conviction could not be made.

I must have missed that bit when I read the article. There was a clear assumption that the accused and his friend had gone out 'on the pull', and that is a reasonable assumption in my opinion. I couldn't see anything that said they'd planned to rape someone. If they had, then the question must be asked, why did their friends film it with their cameras before the accused drew the curtain? Why book a hotel in your own (or you're friend's) name if you planned to commit an offence?

The article says the text said " 'got a bird' or words to that effect". Words to that effect? Even if it was those exact words, what does that prove? It is the kind of text a lad on the pull might send to his mates to either brag, or explain his sudden disappearance.

I hope the jury were sure it was rape. If they were not sure, then the conviction is unsafe. Whether it is 'right' or not is irrelevant. What is important is whether a criminal offence was committed. To my mind, that is in doubt.

Same here. I am proud to boast that I declined many open offers when I was a young man, sometimes for the exact reasons you describe. But that's not the question here. If we are going to judge legal cases purely on our own morals, without regard for the clear boundaries of the law, then we might as well bring back lynch mobs and witch hunts. The courts are not there for people to decide whether they personally approve of or disapprove of a given situation. They are there to decide whether or not the law was broken.

Morally, possibly yes. Legally, still possible, but in my opinion, not definite.

 

I could be being thick here, but as Evans has been found guilty why were the others not aiding and abetting as they seemingly stood by and let the offence take place?

 

Quote from the Court of Appeal summary..................
" The CCTV footage showed that while she was inside the kebab shop she was unsteady on her feet, at one point she fell over and landed on the floor. On the other hand, outside the kebab shop she could be seen eating pizza from a large box, although she was also seen to stumble, squat, lose her balance, and walk unsteadily. Indeed, she left her handbag in the shop. Based on this evidence, the prosecution case was that she was very drunk"


The point of the OP is whether he should be allowed to resume a privileged career where (like it or not) he will be seen as a role model by impressionable youngsters . We're not debating his right to, just whether this sport/industry should effectively condone his behaviour that night and subsequent stance since his release. The following three quotes from the CoA summary are the nails in the coffin for me;

"During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect."

"In the meantime, no doubt in answer to the message that he had received from McDonald, the applicant arrived at the same hotel with two other male friends. He persuaded the night porter to give him a key card to the room occupied by McDonald and the complainant. He said that he had booked the room for a friend who no longer needed it. The applicant entered the room."

"He then sent the text message in case the applicant was worried about where he had gone."

It was claimed that the room was booked for the other person to stay in (even though he subsequently spent the night at Evans house). If that was the case what was the purpose of the text and why did Evans lie to get a key card to the room and let himself in? Sorry, but I don't buy it.
He was found guilty, an appeal failed yet he still refuses to say "I was wrong. I'm sorry" If Oldham (or football in general) had a scrap of integrity it would say that "this man is wrong to refuse to show remorse or regret. He is toxic"

I shall make this my final post on the matter out of respect to the views of others.

 

Came up whilst I was typing..................

She went back with the other guy. Evans went to the hotel, lied to get the key card and let himself in.

 

Appreciate the reminder of the appeal Armandii
Really trying to get my head around the law of aiding and abetting in this kind of situation rather than in this particular case, will have a read around this to satisfy my curiosity.

 

Quite honestly, whether he did or whether he didn't he is obviously not a desirable team member, how could he expect respect from the rest of the team.

 

I think the problem here with banning him from the career he had before is what crimes would make that happen? Or would it be all crimes? For example there are plenty of hip hop, grime, dancehall etc artists who have been inside and done time. One that was recently given life imprisonment for murder is Vybz kartel, he will be eligible for parole after serving 35 years. Now when he gets out i doubt there will be an uproar stopping him from making music if he chooses to.

Then you have celebrities who have had GBH convictions etc

Now what seems to be the main argument about him not returning is that footballers are role models.

The problem i have with this statement is when did someone who can kick a ball automatically become a positive role model for children. This is where i think society has got things a bit skewed. Kids main role models these days seem to be footballers, musicians and celebrities who are famous for being famous.

Someone who is good at their job or a skill doesn't automatically make them a good role model and i think we need to focus on teaching children that and show them there is more to a person that what someone wears or has etc and that people in positions of privilege can be good or can be bad and can do good or bad.

I have no problem with a footballer being a role model if that football is a good person and is respectful in the sport and also in society and does good deeds etc like charity work but children shouldn't think all footballers are role models

I actually kind of think in a way its a valuable lesson about not tarnishing everyone with the same brush and not putting everyone of a certain career or grouping on a pedestal.

 

I have seen Oldham have retracted the offer , due to threats of violence to their staff . So mob rule and trial by Twitter win , British justice lose.

 

do not know this guy. BUT they allowed Mike Vick back in, thought that was the most horrid thing in the world.

 

I hadn't heard of Mike Vick so I looked him up on Wikipedia!! crimes against animals carry less weight than crimes against humans unfortunately, me, I would lock him up and happily throw away the key.