Cheaper Water Bills next year

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by JWK, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. "M"

    "M" Total Gardener

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    That's what I have been doing for the past hour or so ...

    1) Waste water supply (er) - so, water OUT
    +
    2) Water supply (er) - so, water IN

    So, two different companies doing two separate jobs = two bills

    This becomes interesting because, at a previous house, we only had *one* bill (water in + water out) and it only cost the equivalent of (drum roll please) the water *out* bill now! :th scifD36:

    In the meantime, I've had a chat with Mr "M" and it seems: if we only flush our "sewage" once per day (which would mean twice as there are two toilets), we are paying the same price for "waste water" as our neighbours (which consist of 9 people: 2 adults, 7 children). The waste water charge is an annual fixed charge; the "meter" charge is for water *in* - think I've got that right.

    Reading further: if a household has more than 2 children (e.g. our neighbours, who have 7) then their bills are capped (not sure at what level though).

    More reading: the surface water drainage charge applies to everyone whose water from their roof goes into the main drains. However, a rebate can be given is you have a soak-away (but, there is no discount/refund *if* you harness that roof water in the form of water butts :scratch: :noidea:)

    The argument for waste water being more expensive than supplied water is: it costs to process it. But, to me, that argument is flawed. Surely, the water coming in *is* the processed water and therefore should cost more (post processing)? And it is the water coming *in* which is metered - oh! Yes! and *that* is the only water I have any control over!! I can only determine my usage of water in because my water out is a fixed charge whether I sent the poo of 2 people or 9 people down the drain or even if I harness it through my water butts :mad: Seems a bit upside down to me :nonofinger:
    If I send less "waste" down the pipes, I should pay less
    If I send less "roof" water down the pipes, I should pay less.
    If I *use* more fresh water ... then, fair enough, I pay for the privilege of it being "processed". But no, that doesn't appear to be how the water companies behave.

    Plus, when people are being advised if they would benefit from having metered water, the argument was: if you have more bedrooms than people, you will benefit from having a meter. What they do not tell you is: if you have more than 2 children, your bills are capped ;) Which makes the rooms vs persons argument a little bit flawed/misleading!

    I'll have to look into it further (when I feel more "detached" from the subject matter :heehee: ).

    Hmm, thinking about it ... and following from another thread .... maybe savings could be make if .... I bathe in milk? :whistle:
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      It's not straightforward comparing Thames Water with your United Utilities ( NorthWest ) @HarryS - I get sent 6 monthly bills and the price changed part way through. I used a spreadsheet to get the same overall totals as you for the full 12 months:

      upload_2015-2-4_21-8-19.png

      So I am being charged a lot less per Cu m (I would have thought it would be the other way round)

      The thing that surprises me is I am being charged £24 for Surface Water yet we have a soak away and shouldn't be charged anything. I definitely informed them when we had our soak away installed and were now disconnected from the main sewer, I just assumed they had adjusted my bill. So for me this has been a good exercise as I can claim that £24 back and hopefully a few past years worth as well if I can find my letter.
       
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      • JWK

        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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        @"M" so you have two separate companies supplying you - now that is confusing. I've not heard of that 2 children cap before, this certainly is a subject that is much deeper than at first sight.

        Our waste water charge is linked to the meter 'in' usage. I've got to say our bill is not particularly easy to read and the same must go for you, even worse if you have two!
         
      • HarryS

        HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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        Jon
        My water cubic metre charge is
        Water in £1.65
        Waste water out £1.35
        Total £3
        Is your water in + waste water out only £1.85 total ?

        I had a quick look earlier at other water company charges. Say Severn and Trent the cheapest in your table. Its very difficult to work out what's what to compare them :scratch: If anyone has spare few hours it would be an interesting to compare about 4 water companies .
        I think their charges are plucked from the air , as the two company comparison you did shows no common charging theme.
        Ring up to complain "yes sir/madam , you don't like our water charges ? Well nothing much you can do is there. Put the phone down and have a good night bye ! "
         
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        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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          Harry, it's really difficult to compare, I took away the Surface Water charge from the cubic meter charge, but maybe should have taken it away from the Fixed Charge - the table then looks like this:

          upload_2015-2-5_8-31-22.png

          According to Thames Water web site:

          upload_2015-2-5_8-32-56.png

          So it is:
          Water in £1.26
          Waste water out £0.79

          A hell of a lot cheaper than you!

          Just as another exercise I looked into how much I would pay if I didn't have a meter. But that is a whole new can of worms, it's based on the "Rateable value" of your house. To begin with I thought they meant Council tax bands and arrived at a bill of £3k! It seems "Rateable value" assessments were last carried out on households between 1973 and 1990 and haven't changed since, but these figures are held in a secret list somewhere that only water companies have access to. Talk about arcane practices!
           
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          • "M"

            "M" Total Gardener

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            The cap re children applies if you have more than 2 children :)
            There are other reasons people may be eligible for a cap on their water charges (e.g certain illnesses), but you would need to check out your particular company's website for more information/eligibility.
             
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            • "M"

              "M" Total Gardener

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              Ofwat regulate the charges companies set.

              The reasons given why bills vary across companies are:

              "Bills vary between the companies because the cost of providing water
              and sewerage services in different parts of the country varies. There
              are a number of reasons for this, including:

              • the availability of water in the company’s area and how easy it is to take it out of the environment (‘abstraction’);
              • the level of pumping and treatment required;
              • how easy it is to dispose of wastewater in the local environment; and population density."
              Source: http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/future/customers/metering/affordability/prs_inf_afford.pdf

               
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              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                Thanks for clarifying that "M", I have since looked on Thames Water site (my supplier) and they have a similar cap, it just seems to be for families with children with medical needs meaning they need to use lots of water, seems a good thing to me.

                 
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                • HarryS

                  HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                  I think Ofwat need a sanity check ,in my case ! The North West is not noted for its arid desert like climate :biggrin: We have the Lake District , Snowdonia , The Pennines and the Peak District all within a 70 mile radius . I think Ofwat are going to get a letter from Mr Angry of Appley Bridge :gaah:
                  Seems like all the other GC'ers are happy with their water charges , or probably they can't work out the rather complicated water billing ! It's not that easy to interpret a water bill.
                   
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                  • Ian Taylor

                    Ian Taylor Total Gardener

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                    We had a meter fitted about 3 years ago, it halfed our bill, but we've noticed it's been slowly creeping up. And we're not using anymore than what we did.
                    I have 4 x 200 ltr water butts for watering the garden they are never empty has it rains a lot here in the north west.
                    Again it Utility companys ripping off customers:gaah:
                    Rant over
                     
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                    • "M"

                      "M" Total Gardener

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                      Looking at their website a household would need to fit 2 of their criteria
                      1) Be in receipt of certain state benefits
                      PLUS
                      2) Either have 3 or more children
                      Or (a member of the household) have a certain medical condition
                      It didn't read to me that it needs one of the children to have a medical condition :noidea:
                      One of the specified state benefits is Pension Credit and not many people with 3 (or more) dependent children would get that.
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        Got home from work tonight and it appears they fitted a water meter today.
                        Not sure when I start paying for metered water, no info provided.

                        Just checked my latest bill and I'm paid up till 31s March, or so I think, but as I say no real info, just a silly pamphlet telling me to put something in my toilet cistern to stop it using too much water.

                        Got a feeling there is a leak somewhere as well, I checked the meter and it said 55 liters had passed it before I got home.

                        So I'm not looking forward to them digging up the garden to find it, if its anything like the burrowing around that goes on out in the streets, the garden will probably look like the Somme.
                         
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                        • "M"

                          "M" Total Gardener

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                          Turn your taps off when you leave home in future ;) :heehee:
                           
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                          • "M"

                            "M" Total Gardener

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                            Talk of the Devil ... got a water bill today the first metered one we have had, it's the waste water one and guess what ...













                            .... it's gone DOWN!!!! :thud: :phew: :hapfeet:Significantly! ;)

                            But, to be fair, it was a fixed rate at our previous house, plus the two lads are away at Uni for much of the year so .... we shall see how this pans out.
                             
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                            • "M"

                              "M" Total Gardener

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                              Thanks JWK - I looked at that on today's bill - it represents 92.5% of the meter reading
                               
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