Another reason to retire early

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jul 8, 2015.

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  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    I get the 'benefit' of the State Pension, which I paid for by paying National Insurance Contributions for over 40 years. :noidea: They then had the nerve to tell me that they wanted me to pay for another five years :mad: because of a technicality in their rule book! After proving to them that the technicality didn't make sense it's no longer in the rule book. :heehee:

    Following what you have said, I did a little bit of searching and came up with this:-

    "Steve Webb, the pensions minister, said that people earn their state pension throughout their working lives by paying their national insurance contributions and feel "stigmatised" by the idea they are claiming benefits.

    The Department for Work and Pensions has conceded that it needs to consider the “tone and wording” it uses when discussing the state pension.

    The report suggested that the department will stop referring to the state pension as a benefit in documents.

    The state pension is something that elderly people feel that they have "built up entitlement to" by working, the Government admitted in a report.

    Mr Webb said: “The law refers to the state pension as a benefit and has done since the war."

    Research shows, it drives pensioners up the wall if you talk about claiming a benefit rather than the state pension.

    “Absolutely rightly, it is yours by right, you have paid your national insurance contributions. There's a certain amount of stigma about claiming benefits, when people draw their state pension that's not how they think of it.”

    Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, has previously suggested that the state pension could be included in a welfare cap under a future Labour government."

     
    shiney, Jul 13, 2015
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  2. Scrungee

    Scrungee Well known for it

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    Free wigs, surgical appliances, TV licences, bus travel, winter fuel allowances, cold weather payments, etc. for the elderly are also classied as welfare/benefits.
     
    Scrungee, Jul 13, 2015
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  3. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    I wouldn't object to them being termed in that way except I would expect the wigs and surgical appliances to come under a National Heath heading.

    I'm grateful for any of those other items but have tried to reject all of them except the bus pass. I was told 'there is no mechanism for returning winter fuel allowance'. Actually, I didn't refuse the fuel allowance at first, and was happy to have it, but did try later.

    I'm now able to opt for R85 under the new tax rules and shall do so. :blue thumb:
     
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      shiney, Jul 13, 2015
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    • Beckie76

      Beckie76 Total Gardener

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      The winter fuel allowance I'm my opinion should be means tested,
      there's no reason why the likes of say Alan Sugar should have fuel allowance (I know I'm taking it to the extreme but just making a point). In my opinion the same rule should apply to prescription charges, a friends mother is 92 & wants to pay for her prescriptions & did until she found out the money she was paying went straight into the staff Christmas party fund! There's no way for the chemist to actually pay for the prescription if you are over 65! The poor dear was furious! She gives her fuel allowance to charity! She also never claimed child allowance for her two girls when they were growing up! She felt she didn't need it! She's quite a character! I agree with helping people who need help but those who are fortunate enough not to need help should be able to reject payments! :)
       
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        Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
        Beckie76, Jul 13, 2015
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      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        The government (all governments) say that the admin costs to means test to select who and who doesn't receive these sums/prescriptions is more costly than giving it to them.

        So do we, and more! At least it means that we know the money goes directly to be used for the charity. :blue thumb:

        Prescription charges are a bit different. All the time we were paying our NIC we were told that it was going directly to pay our pensions and for the health service and our prescriptions (they were always free). It's hard to change that mind set.

        In actual fact, I don't have any prescriptions :noidea: and can't remember the last time I did. :scratch:

        We pay for private health insurance so that we don't put a burden on the health service unless absolutely necessary.
         
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          shiney, Jul 13, 2015
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        • Charlie996

          Charlie996 Gardener

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          How can you deny the same benefit to those who have paid in the most ? That is simply unfair ...
          There are some who hardly pay in anything yet are entitled to more if that were to be applied.

          If s person refuses to accept the payment fine but we already have a system where those that pay in the most receive the least.
           
          Charlie996, Jul 13, 2015
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          Hi Charlie,
          I agree with you to a certain extent. I suppose it depends on how you view the 'benefits', as I mentioned in post 33, and whether you view them as benefits or rights.

          I think that the pension and the health service are rights and should be available to all those who paid in despite their wealth.

          I'm not so sure about winter fuel payments, cold weather payments, TV licences and bus passes. These seem to me to be benefits that should be given to those who need them.

          Having said that, I think we're talking about almost non-existent things. Most of the wealthy would not take advantage of them if they had the choice. The main problem is that the system doesn't allow for making a choice because they've made the type of process needed almost impossible to administer without exorbitant cost. It's the people devising and operating the systems that are at fault.

          I don't think people such as Lord Sugar would apply for a free TV licence or bus pass!!! Although I thought I saw him sitting opposite me, alongside Elvis, on the bus. :heehee:
           
          shiney, Jul 13, 2015
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        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          I think I may well have spoken too soon - the exhaust fell off the 14 year old Peugeot on the way to the local carnival yesterday - slightly embarrassing to say the least :doh:. We were determined to get there - had a marvellous day - so the exhaust is currently being held on by string. Cars - a constant drain on resources.:gaah:
           
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            clanless, Jul 13, 2015
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          • Scrungee

            Scrungee Well known for it

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            Was that on your trip to South America?

            [​IMG]
             
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              Scrungee, Jul 13, 2015
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            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              I thought I saw you there as well! :blue thumb:
               
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                shiney, Jul 13, 2015
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              • Charlie996

                Charlie996 Gardener

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                But my whole point is that the pensions are not benefits . We have as individuals paid a proportion of NI throughout our working lives to fund the pension.
                Let's also remember those who have paid in more get the same as those who have paid in next to nothing.

                I wonder what those who have chosen a life on benefits will get ? Do they still get the state pension ?
                Let's also not forget the governments have moved the goal post in that I personally like many won't get the pension till 67..
                I must have missed the refund cheque they sent me ??
                The whole system is farcical..

                They tell us we can't have the pensions till 67 yet claim we will be in the black and flourishing in five years time. Yet I won't be 67 for another 9 years so why take it away as we will be flush by then ?
                 
                Charlie996, Jul 13, 2015
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              • Dips

                Dips Total Gardener

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                Now from my days of sickness benefit im pretty sure that u get credits if you are on JSA or ESA so your time not working is covered

                I am personally screwed as i haven't paid NI for years as i don't earn enough to and im no longer on any benefits

                So give me 37 years and i will let you know what happens to those that don't contribute
                 
                Dips, Jul 13, 2015
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              • Charlie996

                Charlie996 Gardener

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                I said :chosen to live on benefits: not those who have been ill.... There is a HUGE difference !!
                But I am curious to know the answer as to whether they get the state pension. But if they don't is it reasonable to assume they will get something only under a different name ?
                 
                Charlie996, Jul 13, 2015
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              • Dips

                Dips Total Gardener

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                Oh i wasnt having a go Charlie996 at all sorry if it came across like that

                But i dont know what will happen to me as i dont contribute at all anymore. But then chances are i wont get one anyway and who knows i may not live that long so i dont worry about it

                If you get JSA you get credits towards your state pension. Basically while your working if you earn a certain amount you pay for NI but in times when you are not working for any reason you need to claim JSA or ESA so the government knows so you then collect credits towards your state pension so there are no gaps

                So those on JSA all their life will be collection credits towards their state pension rather than contributing money. It doesnt matter if you have choosen to live on benefits or if you live on benefits because you are sick you will be still be receiving benefits and therefore collecting credits.
                 
                Dips, Jul 13, 2015
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              • Dips

                Dips Total Gardener

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                Dips, Jul 13, 2015
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