Jeremy Corbyn - this guy worries me

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    If he did he might have his Lifestyle changed to being in Hospital:hate-shocked::heehee:
     
  2. WeeTam

    WeeTam Total Gardener

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    My prediction is Corbyn gets stabbed in the back by his own,the labour party splits into labouir and real labour,tories stay in power forever and the UK splits up. :frown:
     
  3. clueless1

    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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    This is where I strongly disagree with Cameron's policy, which is actually US policy, which is the same thing when it comes to matters of war.

    Cameron and the US want to create yet another power vacuum, to be filled by the next al quaida or IS, ready for the next war.

    As much as Putin and Assad are proper dodgy, I think they're, not exactly in the right, but less wrong than the US and their poodle, Cameron.

    Russian strategy is to give Assad the breathing space to regain control of Syria. As much as Assad sounds like a bad man, it seems like a sound strategy to me. If we really must meddle in the internal affairs of another state, perhaps we should wait til doing so would not further complicate an almost impossible situation. The US thought it would be a good idea to topple Saddam in Iraq. Now Iraq is controlled by IS. Now they want to finish off an already weakened Assad in Syria, and Syria is mostly under IS control. I think Russia's strategy of bolstering the existing authority so that they can regain control of their own country is the right strategy.

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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Unfortunately, History has proven that Dictators don't stop wars, they create them. No country under a Dictator is a stable country as there will always be resistance against them. So the line of thought that a Dictator of any ilk is acceptable is questionable because you, yourself, would not accept that in this country.

      Agreed, but like in Libya, we didn't have a plan to put Iraq in a stable condition [I say "we" because the USA didn't wage war on their own] and the likes of France, Italy, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina did and other others gave support indirectly, so we cannot escape blame. But the whole coalition in the 1991 war agreed to stop short of Baghdad instead of taking it and getting rid of Saddam Hussein thereby giving cause for the second Gulf War. The biggest mistake was
      not having any strategy for putting that area on an even footing. Having said that again History has proven that no occupying force of any country has been able to do that.........and the Middle East is no exception.:dunno:

      Where is the political profit or logic in that? To be honest, I think you have to have at least lived in the Middle East for a period to understand how tribal, religious, political history going back thousands of years is still fresh in the minds of the people and is still used to fuel the fires of war:wallbanging:. Ukraine, Serbia, etc are another example of that. But the above is a diversion from the present situation's focus.
       
    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      @ARMANDII, if any of it was about dictators or what I would accept here, then we'd have to go after, among others, Saudi Arabia, a state that is very brutal to anyone that doesn't tow the line, north Korea, China, several African countries, in fact, quite a large chunk of the world.

      We can't say that Assad has to go because he's horrible, and then turn a blind eye to the fact that that nutter in north Korea has his own family members executed on a whim, or while people in China get official beatings or disappear for thinking the wrong thing.

      The war with IS is nothing to do with democracy vs dictatorship in one state, it is about a well organised bunch of absolutely crazy people who don't belong to or recognise a single state, and need to be stopped. If Assad can get the breathing space to regain control, then IS have less control, and thus are weakened. I guess an obvious question is, would it be better if Assad was in power and not IS, or would it be better if Assad lost all of his ground, and all of his control, and IS became victorious.
       
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      • Jack McHammocklashing

        Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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        "Where is the political profit or logic in that? To be honest, I think you have to have at least lived in the Middle East for a period to understand how tribal, religious, political history going back thousands of years is still fresh in the minds of the people and is still used to fuel the fires of war"

        Or Bradford/Leicester

        Jack McH
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          Actually, that kind of question has been asked over the centuries in the Middle East and, unfortunately, has proved to have no realistic answer as one war, invasion or dictator has followed forever onwards.

          I don't think my point was that Saddam Hussein had to go whether "orrible" or not or was I advocating that he should have gone, but his own need for power and finances from oil led to him invading another country and also earlier an 8 year war with Iran where millions died. . My point was that no Dictator is an acceptable compromise or a proven pillar of stability because they in fact are unstable in their need to keep control by repression or murder. So I don't think any Dictator is an acceptable compromise or solution to ending a war, but nor do I think the West invading in the blundering way that has happened in the past is the solution.
           
        • Billybell

          Billybell Gardener

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          I think one of the reasons why we want to remove Assad, is that his actions are causing tens of thousands of his own people to try to come and live here. That sort of makes it our business in a way that doesn't apply to North Korea etc.
           
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          • clueless1

            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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            I might be wrong, but I believe there were not tens of thousands of Syrians coming here before the Syrian people turned on their own government and started a civil war. I do not judge them. I know nothing of daily life in Syria. I'm just going off the facts as reported.

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          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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            Oh, that's such a "dangerous" thing to do!!:dunno::doh::heehee:
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              I define "their own government" as one voted in by the people and the Ballot Box. not by the Bullet, repression, murder and torture.:scratch::dunno:
               
            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              That's true, they are both different issues.
               
            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              As opposed to the alternative? Go off the conspiracy theorists posts on internet? or worse, the bipolar hysteria that is the Facebook chatter? Or, we could just bury our heads in the sand. All of these alternatives, as imperfect as they are, are probably better than actually going to have a look.
               
            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              If they wanted assistance, I'm pretty sure they could have asked for it. If they'd asked, I'm pretty sure we'd have ignored them. So there seems to be no logic to it.
               
            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              So long as you realise that they are imperfect, sift the evidence, forget your biases, and keep an open mind, and don't settle for compromises that basically washes your hands of the effects of doing so..........that is exactly what our Governments did after Libya, and the two Gulf Wars.:whistle::dunno::snork:
               
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