Israel

As you said, PG, glad you started this thread.

Dai, sorry:( no reference to you being linked to Moseley etc. Just a personal dislike of the term "Jew". I was brought up in the East End of London and that term was used as an insult. Much like the insult "scope". Sorry, mate, no offence intended.

 

No one has answered the question. What would we do if the French fired rockets at us?

 

Sussex. Sorry for my poor spelling:(. I get told off for that from lots of 14yr olds:D

 

Its not as simple as put yourself in Israels shoes.

We need to remember that Israel has no desire to make peace as Sharon's speech on the temple mount in 2004 proved and indeed subsequent actions. We then need to look at issues like the wall etc...... Farr from Israel being the put upon people, they are the aggressor.

Is it any wonder that hamas send over a few low range missiles?

I repeat, the Israeli response is disproportionate and ill targeted.

 

"Those deaths of civilians is an accident, wrong place wrong time"

Carl C, The civilian casualties are not in the wrong place at the wrong time, THESE ARE WOMEN CHILDREN AND ELDERLY IN THEIR OWN HOMES.

Israel is not helping the casualties and will not call a ceasefire for humanitarian aid, the Palestinian hospitals are running out of supply's.

 

Half right. The isreali's did blow up most of the RAF's planes for example. However, my grandfather was one of many hundreds of british troops who were tasked with removing palatinians from their homes. And not in a nice cup-of-tea-and-a-chat sort of a way, but by smacking them with pick axe handles until they left. Years later it was the only thing that made him cry...

It was the british troops that also blockaded area's of the mess that was palastine/isreal at that time while the christian massacres were happening. Not to stop it happening... to stop other christian groups rising up.


We have a lot to answer for.


The situation is an awful one. Isreal is here to stay. They have a very powerful army and air force and have a willingness to use force. They have the US as well if things really get bad.

The arab countries around the region won't fight another battle they can't win, and, to be fair, don't really care a lot about the population of palastine, although it's good for forcing the west to cut better oil deals and sell them arms.

The palastinians themselves are living in slums and have a torrid time of it.

Were I an isreali, with rockets falling on Mrs Steve, I would be screaming at the government to go in and sort the situation out.

On the other hand, if I was a palastinian and Mrs Steve was living in a slum, and people around me were getting bombed and shot, and basics like medicine and water was being with held, I would be screaming at what ever power base I could find to help me.

It's easy to say it's one side or the other that is at fault - right up until it's your child, or your best friend, who is killed. At that point it becomes personal, you want revenge and you want it now, and peace talks suddenly seem fairly meaingless.

However, northern ireland is settling down. And if it stays settled long enough then a generation can grow up without hate, which is the long term solution. Both the deals it took to solve the northen ireland issue made NO ONE happy, and the middle east seems far more complex still.


Steve

 

Agree with you Steve.

 

Also perhaps if we had just decided Paris was ours and moved a load of British in and annexed off the area banning all French people in there may well be a point.

 

Unfortunately, Israel is not staying within it's borders as it has been annexing more and more land that was agreed in 1967 to be Palestinian. Thousands of Israelies have settled the better, more productive Palestinian lands, taking Palestinian orchards, farms and homes, and squeezing the Palestinians into two small areas that aren't even connected.

They have no port and all border crossings are controlled either by Israel or Egypt and the Egyptian border is closed, so everything that enters Palestine is controlled by Israel. Isreal is more or less starving the Palestinians into submission and Gaza is in effect a whole country under siege, they have even built a wall around them. If any of us and our family were suffering under those conditions, I am sure that lobbing a few missiles into the country of our persecuters would seem perfectly justified.

Israel has actually said that this campaign is a show of strength, rather like a morale boost for the military after their failed attacks on Hizbullah in Lebanon a couple of years ago. So Palestinians are paying with their lives to make the Israeli army feel better about itself.

 

Steve what went on after WW2 in that area was wrong but we cant keep blaming ourselves for everything that has gone on in the world.
We cant understand these days how politics, and peoples attitudes have changed over the years.

It seems to be open season on Britain bashing in the world these days, lets not make all the worlds problems Britains fault.

I for one dont "have a lot to answer for", as I wasn't even born.:D

 

I am becoming a bit more aware now-thanks guys, so let`s see if I have a grasp or not,

Palestinians are behind walls in what is tantamount to a ghetto, their food and water supply is under Israeli control-they are in fact having their food and water restricted, they aren`t allowed outside of the ghetto, all because they are Palestinian..........-yes/no?



Palestinians aren`t grateful for this treatment and use force/terrorism ( one persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter) to make their point, Israel responds with what I have heard described as disproportionate force and deploy weapons against civilians-they are not allowing aid through to the Palestinians and have told them to leave yes/no?



Where are these people supposed to go exactly? Into the sea, or do they have their own ideas?

I`m sorry, but this all sounds awfully familiar and the term hypocrite is on the tip of my tongue here.

 

Well, I don't know much about the history and that is why I like to see threads like this. Maybe not pc, not diplomatic etc but what us ordinary people think about this.

We are not living with bombs. That's about all I can say. I feel for anyone in those circumstances. I don't know how to sort it out but it is very complicated - one thing I know is that if you have a good teacher you can believe, I wish we were all taught things, but where do we get the teachings from?

cheers

 

Cajary, apology accepted.:gnthb: Claire, one piece of info you missed out. There are 1.5 million Palestinians living in an area half the size of the Isle of Wight.

 

Thus with Israel useing sutch dissproportinately heavy weaponry the casualties are so high