Grenfell Towers

The problem has a lot more implications and complications, apart from whether there was negligence or illegality in the building or maintenance of the blocks.

They now state that they have declared 60 high rise buildings as unsafe. This number is bound to increase as local authorities continue with their inspections, which can result in (possibly) hundreds of thousands of people needing to be rehoused for weeks or months. I can't see how they are going to handle the logistical problems.

Three quarters of a million people in London live in 'Tower' blocks, let alone the rest of the country. Quite a lot of these would be in more modern, posh, dwellings built of less flammable materials (such as glass) but it gives an idea of the potential scale of the problem.

Before the advent of the 'Tower Block' most flats were no more than four storeys high. The first tower block in the country was built in 1951 and is ten storeys high and has less than 100 residents. (I know the place fairly well and knew the architect - it's only six miles from me.)


Tower blocks such as Grenfell Towers can house up to a thousand people!

Local authorities (a large proportion of tower blocks are local authority owned) simply don't have the funds to rehouse, albeit temporarily, so many people and there are not enough places to put them. They also have no choice in telling the tenants that they have to move out because danger notices have been served on them by the bodies in charge of those sort of things.

I can see that there is going to have to be some sort of compromise as the number of tower blocks listed as 'unsafe' increases (39 by Saturday and 60 at the moment).

The cladding problem is also compounded by the lack of maintenance to other parts of the towers (fire escapes, fire doors, gas, electric etc.). Some councils have already started removing the cladding from their buildings and, if there are no other safety issues, then they could try and move people back in to the buildings. It would seem logical to me to start from the lower floors and work upwards.

If the numbers increase to unmanageable proportions I'm sure there are fairly quick methods of making some sort of compromise 'fix' for it - bearing in mind that most of these places have been standing with no problems for decades. Who makes the choices and takes the responsibility is beyond me!

Maybe providing the lower floor dwellers with fire extinguishers, fire blankets etc. and having fire experts on patrol in the block 24 hours a day will be part of that solution.

If I lived in one of the blocks, would I move out or stay? I haven't the faintest idea about an answer to that question but, sitting here nice and safe, I would be inclined to say "If I lived on the ground floor I would definitely stay". Then the question would be 'what if you lived on the second floor'? Until I got to a stage where I couldn't answer the question.

The logistical problem of housing the people that are being moved out has already hit the authorities but you also have the social and personal problems of the individuals. The needs of the sick and infirm, the people with pets, the people who work from home. Then there is the more minor problem of the security of the blocks. It's an ideal situation for thieves to get in at night!

I'm just scratching the surface of the problem.

 

@Beckie76
Here you are. Your old friend is still around.

 

So tempted to change my username to Asparagus........

Anyway, it was I who said that they should knock down anything higher than four stories, and having tried it before I knocked it, I stand by my opinion.

If you are happy in a tower block, then fair play to you - I would bet given the chance there are more people living in them that would move out than would stay. As a matter of interest, are you in a London block?

Re: the comment about the tenant and his neighbour having put out the fire, that is entirely different to a version I read, which was that the fire service extinguished the original fire, only to discover it had moved on to other flats?

Oh, and we do need to bear in mind that not ALL affected blocks are being evacuated - only those in Camden which have a further problem around the gas pipes. Now that the council ate aware of it, they really have no choice but to act

 

That's what I heard.

I also understand that although they said they can't start any work until the buildings are empty they have already started changing the fire doors.

I agree that it would be best to have lower blocks but they say there isn't enough space to build them that way

Blocks of flats similar to those that @misterQ lives in are the ideal size. From memory, I think they were originally built as four storeys around the beginning of the 20thC but I heard that some were later built up to five storeys. Although old they were, and probably still are, excellent properties that allowed for a real sense of community.

Some things stick in people's minds and one of them, with those flats, was that the cutouts in the walls of the balconies that ran along the front of the flats had zig zag metal bars instead of straight ones. I don't suppose they're there now.

 

I thought that was your middle name!

 

The number of blocks now listed as dangerous has risen to 75. I reckon it will be much higher by the time they finish checking.

Apparently the cladding manufacturers have always stated that they the cladding shouldn't be put on tower blocks unless they use a non-flammable packing material.

Re war and bombing:- we have a number of members that are old enough to remember it. The last bombs landed on London 72 years ago (not referring to terrorist bombs) so you would only need to be about 75 to remember it. Some of the bomb sites were still there into the late 50's and kids used to play on them all the time.