Israel

You also have to remember that most Middle Eastern countries deny Iraels right to exist. Israel isn't fighting a war to define territorial boundaries, it's fighting a war to survive. If we were fighting a war to prevent being obliterated as human beings, we just might be a little "heavy-handaed.

 

Can't believe the lack of historical knowledge here!!
We didn't help the Israelis (Don't like the expression "Jews" to much of a throwback to Moseley) take over Palestine. We were protecting Palestine for the Arabs and the Israelis forced us out. They took control of the area and opinion is divided between the Israelis forcing the Arab population out and the Arabs leaving and vowing to come back and take the territory by force.
Israel took all the other israelis from all over the world who had been persecuted and formed them into a country, admittedley they did it by force but they had no other options.
Stop reading the Sun and Mail and read history.
All their boundaries have been made by force because all the other countries in the area believe they shouldn't be there.
Israel is a young country fighting to survive, maybe, if Syria,Iran etc. said that Israel had a right to be a nation and that they should negotiate the borders, the situation might be different!!
C'mon guys. What happened to the English way of supporting the underdog.!!

 

But remember that it was Sharon who totally destroyed the prospect of peace by his visit and speach on the temple mount.

 

I agree with Cagary. The middle East has been in conflict since king Herods time and beyond why say its only just started. Are you against the Jews David. I am a Roman Catholic and if I was Jewish I would Hate you DAVID. If you dont know the history dont talk about the subject. It can be very very offensive and it is very rude to our Jewish members. How do you think they must feel.

Isreal has a right to its own existance leave the politics aside. I take it David you dont like a certain race of people, well tough. Who are you to be Judge and Jury You are nailing Christ on the Cross all over again. Shame on you.:(:(

 

Israel has every right to exist and for some group (hamas) to be lobbing missiles over when they feel like it and expecting no retaliation is unbelievable",disproportionate response" what else can they do they are trying to lock this down once and for all unfortunately as with any war innocent people suffer.

 

I think that`s why I struggle to completely, or partly, understand the whole situation. The complexities of each groups occupation over the many years-the reasons behind it, the tactics used etc leave me bewildered. When I don`t understand something I try to learn-but I most certainly do not use tabloids as a tool of reference. Maybe I am missing something here but isn`t Israel refusing admittance to a certain area which is holy to the Palestinians? Weren`t the Diaspora Jews ( I don`t think Jews have a problem with being called Jews anymore than I have a problem with being called a Christian, let`s not go PC mad-they aren`t ashamed of being Jewish, it`s hardly a slur) being refused admittance to their holy sites before this.

Cajary- how can an underdog be the one who is also stronger and bigger? I don`t understand it-isn`t that a bully? Aren`t the Palestinians the underdogs in this situation? Or maybe that`s changing now that the west seems to be slowly coming over to their side-that could be why Israel is getting a bit-"let`s deal with them once and for all"-another final solution perhaps? Another analogy-the French Resistance were hardly large or powerful enough to take on the occupation force alone, but still the occupation ended, and they were instrumental in its downfall. I make the point here that I am NOT likening Israel in any way shape or form to Nazi Germany, I just think people in glass houses.......................

I myself am not informed enough to be either Pro or Anti Israel, I know Israels decision to release Palestinian convicted murderers would have been very difficult for them to swallow. I think I am just Pro people who just want to get up in a morning and go to work to look after their families, who spend the day tending their personal responsibilities.

But aren`t there some issues that stop people doing just that? Isn`t there something going on with the access to water aswell? As I have said I understand this very little-not a postion I like to be in especially as I enjoy reading about historical conflicts. I will remedy that.

From the little I know, as Fancy says the problems have been going on long before Herod ( who sold out his people to the Romans-Jewish readers won`t much like him either) ), and as I have since done a little more research ( my life isn`t long enough to fully appreciate this I fear), I am given to believe that the powers that lasted the longest are the ones that showed tolerance towards the other faiths. But in contradiction to Fancy I am afraid that is what this whole situation is about-politics. It`s just that none of them are being very politic.

 

This whole Arab-Israeli conflict has been going on histrically for thousands of years, each side claiming ownership of the land in question since biblical times. It does seem unfair that Israel gets a lot of overt Western financial & military backing whilst Palestinians uses Guerilla tactics and 30 year old Communist weaponary. I think that while America remains the world's top superpower then Israel will remain pretty much unchecked... coz they're best pals. I think that this conflict goes beyond simple politics and more to do with religious zeal - something that's alightly more harder to manage successfully.

 

The problem is that Israels response is precisely retaliation, NOT TARGETED at Hamas but a grossly disproportionate use of weaponry to wreak general revenge. I feel that Palestinian civilian casualty are the aim of what Israel intends (a typically eye for an eye Arab response).

How can the Palestinian people put pressure on Hamas to stop the missiles when they are under such a heavy air assault? Most of the civilians will be more concerned with surviving.

The fact that Israel will not even agree to a temporary ceasefire for humanitarian aid sums them up for me.

 

Spent a little time on some reference websites-and if possible, I understand even less than I did before.

It`s an immense topic, involving, Mycaeneans, Hittites, Egyptians, Canaanites, Danites, Damascus, Philistines-to name just a few.

To murder people for what seems to me, to be a history built on uncorroborated oral tradition, conflicting sources of information and at times plain superstition and old grudges, is disgusting behaviour on all sides-it seems there are more than just two sides to this coin, and they are ALL in the wrong.

It requires much more reading before an opinion can be formed-and I suspect even after that, it will be impossible.

 

I know these differences go back years, but really you cant go back further than after WW2.
As I see it, that was when the recent modern conflict started.
When the state of Israel was imposed on the area

If you take the historical approach we could still be fighting the French, Spanish, Americans, Indians etc.

 

The conflict started a lot, lot further back in time than WW2. The question is how far back do you go?
European interference in the Middle East before and during WW1?
The Crusades and the artificial fiefdoms they created when they stole land from the Arabs (Kingdom of Jerusalem, Principality of Edessa, etc)?
The Roman Empire banishing all Jews from Judaea and deliberately renaming it Palestina-the Latin version of Philistina, the sworn enemy of Judaea centuries before (talk about lighting the touchpaper!)
The Hellenistic king Seleucus trying to impose his rule on Judaea and the Jews, leading to the Maccabean Rising.
And all the time, Judaism says the valley between Syria and Egypt is The Promised Land!

The area that is now Israel/The Holy Land/Palestine has been contested for not hundreds of years, but thousands and will probably continue to be so.

Lastly, has the irony of the three major religions of the world all claiming Jerusalem as one of their holy sights not escaped anyone?

 

What I do know for a fact is that no historical occurence stands alone and it is imperative to understand the ideology behind each action when trying to tackle the question as a whole.

 

when the yanks have had enough they will nuke em..:skp: what is going on is awfull , no answers to this one dont know where you can start...religion all over again..so all of you that pray can pray for the young that are getting burnt and blown to bits.. who`s god is best then.. luke 66 or john 99 who cares if we could rip the bible up we would be a lot better off...

 

To my mind Past history does not justify the current Israli response. As I see it, it's dissproportionate in every way and not even particularly targeted.

One thing i know is that were I to be palestinian and see family and freinds being bombed and killed in the numbers of late then i would be suporting and probably joining hamas. All Israel is doing is entrenching itself further into conflict.