Bee friendly greenfly spray?

Discussion in 'Roses' started by RoisinMcGuire, Apr 25, 2024.

  1. Dovefromabove

    Dovefromabove Head Gardener

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    My garden is teeming with native ladybirds this spring. Far more than I’ve ever seen before this early in the year. :hapfeet:
     
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      Last edited: Apr 30, 2024
    • Debs64

      Debs64 Gardener

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      Mine too which is surprising after the cool wet Spring we have had here
       
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      • amancalledgeorge

        amancalledgeorge Super Gardener

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        Glad there was some acknowledgement that not everyone has enough birds to clear infestations for them, it's easy enough to generalise but so many people are gardening in environs not conductive to large bird populations that can help. But neem oil mixed with some soap helps. You can't help if you're surrounded by concrete and AstroTurf.
         
      • Debs64

        Debs64 Gardener

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        Is neem oil safe? I live in a suburb in the West Midlands but we do have our fair share of birds large and small and lots of lovely ladybirds
         
      • Mrs Hillard

        Mrs Hillard Keen Gardener

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        Ok, this isn't meant to sound like a lecture, just for information purposes, but the best insecticide actually comes from the rose itself.
        The way roses work is that, when the stems are young, usually with small buds attached, they are particularly tasty for aphids as the stems are low in Polyphenols. As the stem matures and the buds that will bloom get larger, usually at the stage there is colour in the bud, the Polyphenol production is increased to such a level that Aphids find it unpalatable and fly off.

        You don't actually need birds, ladybirds and certainly not chemicals. A rose growing well enough will deal with it itself, so on a single bush you will find stems with aphids and stems without.
        Here's an example..
        Two photos taken of the same rose at the same time.
        The first is covered in aphids, as you can see the stems and buds are at the juvenile stage. Low in Polyphenols.
        IMG_1625.JPG
        ..as they get larger and start to colour up.. indicates high Polyphenol production = no aphids.
        IMG_1624.JPG

        It's these Polyphenols, also known as Catechins, that deter aphids. This chemical is also found in tea leaves.

        The best approach for the gardener is to try and turn a blind eye, go look at other things in the garden, and just let your roses deal with it, even if they are completely smothered.
        The only time I would use a water spray is if cutting stems for a vase where there are bound to be buds not yet open and you wouldn't want aphids in your home.
         
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        • lolimac

          lolimac Total Gardener

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          Also @o-Riverside-o keep your eyes out for the larvae in your garden I found loads on my bins and garage wall:thumbsup:
           
        • Dovefromabove

          Dovefromabove Head Gardener

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          • RoisinMcGuire

            RoisinMcGuire Gardener

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            Hi, my garden is in Ayrshire - picture is at our holiday home up north :) I think the lack of birds are partly due to the massive number of neighbourhood cats, and that our back garden is mostly black tarp at the moment. I have put out a large bird feeding station, mostly jackdaws!
             
          • RoisinMcGuire

            RoisinMcGuire Gardener

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            Thank you!! That's interesting, never even thought of collecting it
             
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            • fairygirl

              fairygirl Total Gardener

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              Hopefully you'll get more birds coming in over time @RoisinMcGuire , once you get the garden going, but it's not an instant thing.
              It can also depend on the type of food you're using, and the quality of it. Having a good range of plants will also help to get a balance over time, and not overfeeding and cossetting also helps because they become stronger and more able to fend off any pests that could affect them.
              We're overrun with cats here, but with the right plants and a bit of persistence, it's possible to get a good range of birds in. We have loads of jackdaws around here, but they rarely come in the garden - too busy making their nests in old chimney pots just now, and a lot of suitable food elsewhere for them the rest of the time :smile:
               
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