help with identifying plants

Also have they perfected a Hellebore that will hold its head up?

[ 23. March 2006, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: roders ]

 

I think the variability of the plants within each acaulescent species is just something we have to live with.

It could because hellebores are not far into their evolutionary journey and haven't yet separated and evolved into 'good' species. Perhaps in thousands of years the ambiguous colonies of hellebores which are common throughout the range of the genus will have established themselves as 'good', separate, easy to identify species.

Botanists have to deal with the taxonomic problem as seen right now though, which is just a snap-shot in time. The situation is constantly changing.

As well as being extremely frustrating, the variable nature of the genus is also extremely pleasing - we wouldn't have the huge range of hybrids available today without it.

I don't believe that outward facing flowers is a quality that can be stabilised. Environmental factors to some degree govern the length of the pedicel. The pedicel has a tendency to become longer if the plant is grown in warm conditions.
So, a hellebore which has short pedicels and therefore outward facing flowers one year, might have longer pedicels and therefore drooping flowers the next, if grown in warmer conditions.
Sometimes just growing the plant in a different garden can make a difference - different light levels, soil conditions, etc.

 

That's some answer, Tim! Sounds interesting. Why do you suppose hellebores might not be as far into their evolutionary journey as most other familiar plants? I know they're looking more into the DNA of plants to decide which family they're in, which is partly why we have the frustrations of plants changing names and families - would this not be a way of separating Hellebores into different species, varieties, forms, etc? Seriously, if you have any ideas, I'd be intersted to hear them - you sound like a scientist to me!

 

Lovely pictures Tim

 

Not a scientist, Dendrobium. Perhaps if I was though, I would be able to answer some of my own questions. I wish I could give you a firm answer to your question, but I can�t. It could be that hellebores are still adapting to the environment each respective species is growing in and over time (thousands of years), the morphological differences will become more clear, and there may not be so much overlap in characteristics as there is now. I guess the process of natural selection will sort all of that out.

The problem is that in some colonies of species hellebores, there are plants which seem to have characteristics of other species which may or may not be growing close by. Helleborus torquatus is a good example. Anybody who has heard of H. torquatus usually conjures up images of a violet flowered hellebore. Whilst every colony of this species I�ve visited does contain plants which have solid violet flowers inside and out, they have all contained plants with plain green flowers. And every combination of violet and green in between. These green flowered forms of H. torquatus are indistinguishable from H. multifidus subsp. multifidus which grows not all that far away.

It would be crazy to walk into such colonies and say that the violet flowered plants are H. torquatus, the green flowered plants are H. multifidus subsp .multifidus and the plant with green and violet on the flowers are hybrids. That approach would get us nowhere. The situation we are currently in though, where the description of one species (H. multifidus subsp. multifidus) fits some plants of another (H. torquatus), is untenable. Much more fieldwork is needed. Just to add to the problems, there are issues with other closely related species too which can only be addressed when fieldwork is done.

Flower colour doesn�t help an awful lot when identifying species hellebores. Seeing the foliage makes identification easier (but not always a sure thing!). DNA analysis is helpful, but it would be much easier if such work could be done in the field!
Hellebores are split into species already. The problem is what to do with the colonies of plants which show these characteristics of one or more species. I don�t like to call them hybrid colonies as one is then making a definitive statement about those plants, implying that hybridisation has definitely taken place in the past. Nobody can prove that.

I�m pleased that you have all liked the photos. Species hellebores, all of them, deserve to be more widely grown. There isn�t one which isn�t gardenworthy.

 

Definite;y something I'll look into more - maybe have a look at the national collection - there has to be one. I'll check it out - thanks for your opinions, Tim. They're lovely plants.

 

You're welcome. There is a national collection, although I don't know how up to date it is.

I have beds containing several plants of every known (and some unknown!) species and I open my garden at weekends throughout the spring by appointment. If you are ever in the area, look me up.

Alternatively, if you are in the north, go visit a friend of mine in Stockport - Will McLewin at Phedar Nursery.