Request for advice on taking on a communal garden maintenance

Hi all,

I am writing to ask for some advice from anyone with any relevant experience or for that matter from anyone who has any thoughts.

I moved in to my new build house three years ago. There are some communal areas which are maintained by a ground maintenance company. All of the houses pay £100 each per year for this. There are 41 houses between two small sites. The communal grounds consists of one large area of grass planted with some trees and then 2/3 areas planted with shrubs and very small areas of grass.

The ground maintenance company do the absolute minimum and less. I have reluctantly paid the £100 but have done so with resentment. They arrive and cut the grass once a fortnight at best. They will walk past trees that are lying at angles because the tie backs have been snapped and they take no pride in the area....

I attended the yearly meeting with the company last year and made my feelings known but there has been no improvement. The grass was cut yesterday but the guys (3 of them) took 4 hrs to cut it as they had to cut it three times as it was so long (they had left it3-4 weeks). I know a number of residents have not paid due to the lack of maintenance.

Ok, so I keep a large garden at home, I like to think I keep it very neat, cut the lawn at least once a week and do all the edging and maintain the beds and shrubs. My gardening knowledge is relatively limited, I mainly experiment at home and plant what I like and maintain it accordingly. I am not afraid of hard work and I take pride in my garden and enjoy it looking well.

Re the communal area I feel angry that it looks so bad. I believe it could be lovely if it was only maintained regularly. The work needed involves a weekly cut and the shrubs trimmed and weeding of the beds.... I estimate that 3-4 hrs per week would have it lovely. This said because it has not been maintained it will take more work initially to get it nice. For instance the grass quality is very poor lots of weeds and moss so it would need to be treated and fed so more work to get it in order but I believe when this is done it could then be well maintained. Clearly my motivations are because I live here and want it to look well and for my family and neighbours to enjoy.

Anyway to the point, I contacted the owner of the maintenance company, I made my points and asked him if he would consider paying a resident to maintain the area. He nearly snapped my hand off and was very positive to the idea. This concerned me a little. However on the face of it I can see that the site must be a headache for him as others are not paying and he must have a number of complaints to deal with. He said he would send me the schedule they work to ie how much alloted time to each task and would welcome a quote from me.....

So here is where I need advice. I would like to explore this for the above reasons. I realise that I will not be able to retire on the money I will bring in however I don't want to be taken advantage of. I planned on studying his schedule closely and seeing if I felt this was realistic. I considered that I would need to factor for the use of my equipment and maintenance of same. I will also want to talk to him about a budget or factor for feed/weedkiller/plants etc etc... I am also wondering if insurance becomes an issue, would I be covered by their insurance (at the meeting last year when we asked them how they spent the £4k fees they collected he made a big play of the public liability insurance for the area).

I also recognise that if I take this on I am likely to have additional responsibilities ie residents approaching me to complain or raise issues. I am prepaired for this. I also believe that because I will maintain the area well this should not be a huge issue.
So does anyone have any views, experiences observations they could share.

 

Loofah,

thank you for the response. I thought I should clarify quickly just incase someone else tries to steal the patch. The residents are required to pay £100 per year so £4100 per year:thumb:

I agree that it would be better to take on the full thing, but to be honest I do not know enough about the public liability part.... And the contractor made a big deal of this at the annual meeting last year, although it is in their best interests to make a big play of it....

My thinking was that if I take it on and do a good job, as I know I would, then it would strengthen my hand in terms of the future.

As I said previously I do not see this as a money spinner, I suspect I would end up paying bits and bobs out of my earnings to make the area better... In truth I personally would probably do this as long as the deal was right for me... I mean I would not be happy with the contractor making a silly cut for me doing all the work...

 

Marley,

top post... thank you...

so your suggestion is that I take on the whole operation including insurance? I can see that this makes sense. The ground maintenance company wanted me to submit a quote to them for me doing the work, but I can see that they would then be getting a cut for what???? The liability insurance and from what you say I could cover this myself for a relatively small cost....

I am just not sure how I go about replacing this company... and I am one of the residents, I know there was something in the contracts when I signed for the house which said I had to pay for ground maintenance but I guess there is nothing that says it needs to be this company... But as you say I am sure CAB could help with this.

I am also not sure exactly what the contract is for I obviously the garden maintenance but there are walls etc so not sure if there is a responsibility for this also.....

Part of me still wonders if my cause would be stronger if I could show the strength of my work by doing the maintenance on behalf of the company and then look to take it all on when residents would be more likely to go with me.... this said I cannot imagine that anyone is happy with the existing service offered.

thanks again for advice, I will keep you posted with how it all goes

 

I don't pretend to have any particular knowledge regarding this, but a couple of things spring to mind - based purely on when we lived on a new-build estate which also had communal 'open spaces' - I hesitate to call it a garden since it was pretty much looked after as you describe, i.e. not very well, if at all.

That aside.

It's probably me, perhaps not reading your post correctly, but who was/is responsible for having engaged this company in the first place?

I ask because in our case, the 'communal garden/s' weren't actually owned by any of the residents, but remained the property of the builder (although why he/they wanted to retain ownership of silly little bits of land I've no idea - but then I'm not a builder!) but it was he/they who had engaged the maintenance people on a contract which ran for a number of years (can't recall now many). Innumerable complaints were made to our Residents' Association about the state of these communal areas and they pursued it, firstly with the maintenance company itself (who replied that the owner of the land was quite happy with their work) and later with the owner (a faceless company somewhere), and received a similar reply, until it was pointed out that they probably hadn't set eyes on the place for years and didn't appreciate how overgrown and neglected it had become. On this occasion, the owner said that if we didn't like it, we'd have to buy the ground from him and sort it out for ourselves. I won't bore you with the details, but that's what happened ... eventually and the ground was purchased by the Residents' Assoc., who formed themselves into a charity and could thus own property 'for the public benefit'.

This is a rather long-winded way of saying that you may wish to find out:

a) who actually owns these communal areas,
b) who is/was responsible for engaging the company which carries out the work
c) whether there is a time period remaining on an existing contract
d) who negotiates/negotiated the current contractor's fee
e) whether the owners can be convinced there's a need for a different/better approach to management of these areas
and
e) whether the owners would be willing to allow you to do as you propose.

I can only wish you the very best of luck and, as others have said, keep us posted.

 

Fidgetsmum,

once again what a top post:gnthb:

You are of course correct.... Having read your post I suspect the builder, a local contractor, is still the owner of this area of land. They still have a hands on approach and are actually not to bad a company so I will explore.

I have just found out that another site not too far away from here and built by the same builder is maintained by a local resident. I plan on making it a priority to get his details and explore the arrangement.

I am also thinking at this point that my preferred way forward in the short term may be to do the work for the contractor and charge him for my time. Whilst I appreciate that it wont be ideal it seems to have the advantage of giving me time to build the rest of the residents trust in my work and also at least equally important will give me first hand experience of the work involved.

I am so pleased that I posted here, really some fantastic posts that have helped to develop my thinking.

Many thanks again guys and any other thoughts please keep them coming and I will of course keep you posted.

 

Hi all,

I have received the grounds maintenance tender from the garden management company. They have specified the tasks that have to be completed and how often they need to be completed per month. They now want me to submit a price for carrying out this work.

The areas of work are divided into sections:

Grass area: grass cutting, grass fertilisation, weed treatment, litter lift... For instance they have identified ONE grass fertilisation to take place on May (this is the only time per year). They have identified the grass cutting from April-November inclusive and ONE cut in April and November and TWO cuts May to October... I think this is unrealistic.... I think as a minimum it would need 3 cuts per month in that growing period.... and at least 2 in April.

Shrub area: Two cuts to cut back shrubs and THREE weed treatments.

Hedges: cutting and facing: Once per year.

Hard Areas: Brush up car parks five times per year, weed treatment of kerbs Three times per year. Leaf collection Three times per year.

Moss Treatment x ONE.

I am not sure how to go about submitting a price. I was thinking I should lay it out as per the tasks they have identified but put down me estimations re time. So for instance I think the grass will need cut three times per month as opposed to two and I esstimate it will take at least 3 hrs each time.... Do you recommend I over estimate slightly? Also there is nothing here re buying of plants, fertiliser, weed treatment etc... Should I specify re this... Any thoughts appreciated

 

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Hi all,

I managed to speak with the guy who does the ground maintenance of another site near to me. He is a resident on the site he does and he too does the ground maintenance and charges the management company. He explained that the communal areas are owned by all residents therefore lets say someone got hurt on the site they could sue all residents and this is why there needs to be a management company to look after insurance and to ensure the site is well maintained etc.... He does the work and charges the site management company. He explained that he charges £7000!!!! per year...............................

The site he works is larger, far more houses, so I guess the cost to each resident is not as substantial, although he did explain that each resident paid £190 each per year to the management company....... On my site we only pay £100.....

His main duties are cutting grass at least 4 times per month, weeding all areas, cutting shrubs, cleaning walls, picking up litter.......................

It was really useful to focus my thoughts....

I think I will go ahead and submit a proposed tender for the work on our site....The big issue is the management companys belief that the grass area can be cut fortnightly.... This I see as a main issue with our site, because it is cut so infrequently it is full of clover and weeds and is often very high and unsightly..... I instead will want to cut it weekly to keep it neat and in good order. This however obviously means more money and will mean all residents will have to pay more. So it seems to me that it will be a straight decision for all. If we want the place to look well we will have to pay more.

The mangement company cvurrently raises £4100

I plan to submit the following tender

work: to cover cutting grass at least 4 times per month (3 1/2 hrs per cut.... It is a big area), weeding of all areas, collecting litter, brushing car parks, cutting hedge, cutting shrubs, picking up leaves in winter = 168 hrs @ £15 per hour = £2520
Purchase of weed treatment substances, fertiliser and moss control substances: £250 (the grass area is approximately 70 metres x 25 metres so a large area)
My own public liability insurance = £300
Maintenance of equipment, petrol etc = £350
Purchase of planting, compost etc =£400

Total tender = £ 3820

The management company only currently raise £4100 however as I have said they only cut the grass twice a month max and the standard is terrible (in my quote cutting grass equates to 112 hrs of the 168 total so this will explain the hike in costs). I predict that with the management company having to still cover public liability insurance and to take their own management fee the fees for each resident would need to go up by £50 per year to £150 giving the management company a pot of £6150. But that is their issue.


I know the company is supposed to maintain planting and in their agm minutes last year there was an illustration to say they would plant new plants although they never have. I have put £400 per year which would allow me to add some hanging baskets and do little areas each season. In total this would all come to £2705. Now I estimate the company collects £4100 and they would still be taking care of the liability insurance so say £400 max for that leaves them approx 1k for managing the project.... I recognise this may not be enough for them. Financially it is not an incentive for me. I pay 40% tax so my income for this will be very low... My motivation is to see the area look well and I want to be paid a going rate for the work done. The most contentious issue that I see is the lawn area, it is the major aspect of the site, I am convinced restricting it to two cuts per month is why it looks so bad so I intend to be firm there. Apart from this how does the schedule and or my figures look.

I am wondering how this sounds to people. Many thanks again for all the help.

 

You've clearly done a lot of research and thinking about this dp., and without knowing all the minutiae, your proposal (to me) seems fairly reasonable and feasible - it's clearly going to be a full-time job.

For what it's worth, I think it's right that, in submitting your tender, you give as detailed a breakdown of your proposed costs as possible and being mindful of the 'knock-on' effect to householders, I can see why you've kept your labour costs to £15 p.h., but I'm sure you're well aware that is a very reasonable hourly rate.

There are just 4 tiny points that have sprung to mind reading your proposals (and again I stress, these observations are made without the benefit of in-depth knowledge).

1- I would, in the first instance, approach the company with a slightly higher estimate than your bare minimum. They're a company, they'll want to make as much as possible so I feel you'd need to leave yourself some 'bargaining' room, allowing them to 'negotiate you down' to what you really expect.

2 - I don't see a provision for the disposal of hedge and shrub clippings etc. I may have misunderstood and there maybe somewhere suitable on-site, but if it's got to be taken off-site is that an added cost?

3 - The £400 for 'planting and compost'? I'm just a bit worried about this. I do see 'where you're coming from' on this, (hanging baskets, extra planting here and there each season - I know it adds up) but I'm just wondering if you'll be able to justify (to the company and your fellow residents) that £400 per annum is realistic. I'm not saying it isn't - just that they might wonder why you'd feel the need to spend £400 on compost on an established site?

Of course, your reply would be that it wouldn't be £400 on 'just' compost, but perhaps a more detailed breakdown? Along the lines of - 'New plants for neglected areas - estimated cost £xx : plus x hanging baskets at an estimated £xx each, plus compost and plants for same at £xx'? This proposal does of course, give them the opportunity to counter with the 'nice but unnecessary' argument. It is perhaps one of the areas that you could use as part of your 'bargaining' tool I mentioned above.

4 - It's obvious, that in order for this area to be cared for in the manner you'd wish, the cost to residents will have to rise and I think that is going to be your biggest 'stumbling block'. If some of the residents haven't paid because of the poor standard (or lack of) work to date, convincing them to part with even more - purely on the promise of something better at a later date - is going to be tricky. And if the company aren't getting the revenue from residents it won't be there to pass on to you and thus not in their interests to sub-contract.

You may already have done so, but I feel you need to get the residents 'on side' and in writing. Much better if you can go to the company with written proof that the residents agree with your proposal and will be likely to pay. Of course, you know what I'm going to say - canvassing. An A5 flyer (or 'petition') delivered to every household, setting out your proposals: how you intend to improve the area: a place on it for them to sign their agreement that the current company's work is not satisfactory: that they'd prefer someone who lives within their community (and cares about it) to undertake the work.

Of course, you can't get people to sign anything which legally commits them to paying (legal documents + enforcement = minefield), but you can get them to sign to the effect they'd rather you did the work. It would mean extra preliminary work, and in order to be effective, you need to both deliver and collect the forms. As you're probably aware, people can be lazy even on the most basic level - they'll agree it's a good idea but won't bother to actually do anything like pop the form back through your letter box, so you'd not only have to lead them to water but force them to drink as well!

It would be up to you whether your flyer or petition (call it what you will) made specific mention as to the exact amount of the maintenance price increase - it will after all, be 50%. Phrases with the word 'less' in them are always good - so instead of 'a necessary increase of 50%', how about something along the lines of '.. a small increase of less than £1 per week' ? Sounds better - says the same!

I continue to wish you good luck and look forward to hearing of your progress.

 

Wow, GC-ers all. I am so impressed with this thread. Sound advice and lots of it! I was going to comment but now I gots nutt'n to say! :gnthb: :gnthb: :gnthb: