Hello to all Looking for some advice if anyone can help? I work part-time and am paid less per hour than the full-time workers doing a similar job,I have looked into it and part-timers and full-timers should get the same hourly rate doing a similar job. I spoke to my boss about it and he said they got a higher rate because they were flexibleI pointed out that I am alot more flexible than most full-timers, he said that was my choice!I told him that employment law states you should get the same hourly rate and he told me I was right and to leave it with him. A few days later he offered me a higher rate but still not as much as the full-timers I said no, then he got legal advice and is now telling me he can't offer me anything. I got in touch with acas and I now have to start a grievance against my employerhas anyone done this before ? I don't want to cause trouble I just want to be treated fairly, Thanks for any help
HI I work in HR , SOME QUESTIONS Have you the same contract ? as the other staff at your level with the £££ pay . Are other Part Time people getting the same as you or more How did you find out ? ACAS should help you out as it sounds as if you have a strong case against your employer, for not beig treated equaly If they value you it could be sorted out quickly. I have known of this before when favoured staff for what ever reason had more for the same job , it only causes problems, Spruce
Hello spruce and Thankyou for your reply I am not sure if I am on the same contract, I don't think I have one, I have never seen one or signed anything? The other part-timers are on the same rate as me not sure if I should tell them as it affects them to To give you an example one worker went from full-time to 25 hours at the beginning of the year, she is doing the same job and he has taken her off the higher rate (full-time rate as he calls it)and is now paying her less per hour, but she gets more than me and other part-times. Everyone knows it's going on but no-one wants to do anything about
What a bad employer Just beacuse you havnt been given a contract that changes nothing, as soon as you start a (contract all your rights come in to law.) AND YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS Have you a job descrption ? You need to start writing down dates and times and names with what is happening as this type of thing can turn nasty , have they a head office so you can speak to somone in HR ? have they a greviance policy ? How long have you worked their. ? what holiday and sickness do they pay ? IE DAYS It sounds a horrible place to work, its a pity your mates dont back you up as you could be singled out and then they manage you out " trouble causer" I know how you feel as I have dealt with cases of varying wrongs over the years or heard of them Spruce
Gosh what a position to be in....... If he is underpaying all you part timers then you shoulkd all get together with Acas & get a case together........... DO NOT TRY TO FIGHT THIS ON YOUR OWN AS HE WILL FIND A WAY TO PENALISE YOU & TO GET RID OF YOU FOR SURE........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TO KEEP EVERYONE & HIS COSTS DOWN... aLL YOUN PART TIMERS GET TOGETHER & DON'T TRY IT ON YOUR OWN IS MY ADVICE......
By law, they have to give you a contract of employment. Is this a large firm with HR departments and all the usual gubbins, or just a small operation where the boss you see is also HR and everything else all rolled into one? That's relevant because it may be that your horrid boss is not the top man, and you might be able to go over his head. Its also relevant because you can deal a stinging blow that usually scares them a bit if you right to the head office, put in the letter that it is in relationship to 'the data protection act 1990 as amended', and request a photocopy of your signed contract of employment. You see if you do this, they are obliged by law to send it to you within a certain timescale (I think its 40 days - not working days, just 40 days). They can ask for up to £10 admin fee to fulfill the request, if they're going to then they have to do that within 28 days, and then the clock starts from the date you send the letter, or the date they receive the admin fee, whichever is the later. This puts them in a no win situation legally then. You see they have broken the law by not giving you a contract, and they would be breaking the law by not honouring your data protection act request. They will try to fob you off, telling you they can only send you the standard terms and conditions or some other such rubbish. You can then point out that they must be in breach of the data protection act anyway, and have therefore broken the law, because under the act they have a legal duty to keep your confidential information (which would include your signed contract) safe. While all this is happening, you keep your own notes about what is being said/done at work that affects you. That's just in case they try to silence you by breaking the law again, with constructive or unfair dismissal. One thing to consider though, it is common for people doing the same job to get different pay. It all depends on how well they negotiated at offer stage. However as far as I know, if they have standard salary/rate bands that they stick to, they can't base the hourly rate on how many hours you actually work.
:WINK1: Clueless what would we do without you & your knowledge.. Thanks so much for putting that so clearly as I know I am out of touch now....
Hi Nat75, You've received some good advice and I agree with most of what's been said. I'm a ex-manager now recently retired and have had some experiences where there's been an imbalance of pay rates amongst employees when I joined firms. One company, which publicly spouted about it's fairness was completely the opposite and had 8 or 9 different contracts for employees working standard full-time jobs of the same description. The reason was a reluctance to pay more in wages, the fact that they were laying themselves open to being taken to court was disregarded on the advice of a manager who was more arrogant than knowledgeable. I joined as Senior Manager and made the Directors aware of the danger - which took some doing as they didn't want to raise wages. In the end I introduced one fair and open contract and with the permission of each employee scrapped the old contracts and started afresh. Your employers sound very much like the one I've just mentioned and are living in the past. You should continue with your case and notify Acas. But your employers may try to bully and pressurise you with threats about your job - just know that all bullies are cowards! - and don't be affected. Contracts must be offered to you. But having said that you must be sure that you're getting the same and equal conditions as the higher rate employee. You must not sign any contract that you're not happy with whatever the pressure. You should be paid the same rate as anyone else doing the same job. The only difference in pay would be incremental bonuses or awards for seniority etc - but your company doesn't sound as though they're competent enough to do that. If you are called in for any meetings to discuss the matter always take a "friend" as a witness. Do not accept the offer from management to let a member of the office staff be your "friend. Take notes at the meeting of what's said and by whom. The rules for a company's behaviour during a redress situation are tight and should the company digress from them it will go against them in any court case. Your employer is treating it's employees, and particularly part-timers, badly and illegally. They will resist attempts to pay the proper and legal rates and will only think again it you contact Acas and let them take the complaint to your employer. Once Acas accepts your claim your employer would be a fool to try to sack or make things so uncomfortable that you will leave on your own accord. That doesn't mean they won't try! You must take your claim to Acas. You must ask for a standard contract equal in pay rates and conditions to all other employees doing your job. You must not sign any contract you're not happy with. You must not go into any meeting without a "friend" to bear witness to what's said at those meetings. You must not accept their offer to let a member of their staff to be your "friend". You must not let them bully or pressurise you in any way. You are in the right and you're being treated unfairly and illegally so carry your case to Acas - and Good Luck.
Nat with Clueless and Armandii on your side you are definitely a winner, do as they suggest and you, and the other part timers working alongside you, will be quids in.[hr]
Thanks for all the great info. Clueless, do I have to put in a request (in writing) for my contract before I put in a request (again in writing) for my pay to be equal as full timers? Again. thank you all so much for all your help, I'd be lost with out your help
You don't have to. Really they are two seperate things. The request for a copy of your contract is just to give you a better bargaining position. Last time I used that trick was when I was coming up for redundancy and I'd heard that the company had ripped off some of those that had already gone by using a different formula to calculate the payout. For me it was a case of forewarned is fore armed, and I did it just to make sure they knew that I was watching them. In your case, it really depends on your gut instinct about what the company might try to do, but if you have no contract it is worth requesting one anyway.
Hi Nat75, I hope CLueless or Spruce don't mind me butting in here but regarding a written request for a contract before putting in a written request for a higher rate of pay equal to that of others doing the same job - they are one and the same thing. Your contract states the conditions of all aspects of terms of employment as agreed between your employer and yourself. Wages are not a separate thing from your contract, particularly as in your case you haven't even got a contract! From your previous comments your boss has already told you he's quite happy to pay you less than others be inferring that that is the system in the company. If he was an open and fair employer he would have offered to raise your wages to the high rate. He is knowingly employing you and no doubt others without a contract - and that is illegal! Nor will he unless you pursue your case. Do not be afraid to go to Acas, in fact it is the only thing you can do. It is not a privilege and favour to receive a contract from your employer! It is your legal right so please don't think he's being kind to you should you get an offer of one. His attitude might soften on the news that you intend to take your case to Acas, and then again, initially, it might not - but it will make him step back and start worrying. Do not take an offer to negotiate the contract and wage separately, in your case they go hand in hand but your employer will possibly try to separate them to his advantage. Should you get an offer of a standard contract and the wage rate you believe yourself entitled to [and in law are] do not sign the contract then and there at the meeting. Tell your employer that you wish to go over the contract and examine it for a short period while taking advice - sign in haste and have plenty of time to regret it! Don't use the name of Acas as a threat, but use it so that he knows you're serious and you will take your case to Acas. I know it is difficult to stand up to your boss, particularly if the rest of your workmates are not really backing you up, but do not be afraid to ask for a contract or rate of wage that is your legal right. Do go to Acas immediately should your boss try to fob you off. I take it that you're not in a Union and by the sounds of it your employer is not the kind to "encourage" it. Acas is there for a purpose and to ensure a fair wage and set of conditions between Employer and Employee - please use them.
