You are being treated badly Nat. Just to clarify : From the govt's own website: "Your employment contract doesn’t have to be in writing. However, you are entitled to a written statement of your main employment terms within two months of starting work." See here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027905 Edit: made link clickable
Would you really recommend that Nat75 should not have a contract in writing, JWK???! Standard practice in good companies to for the employer to have one copy and so does the employee. Should Nat's case go to a tribunal the fact that he hasn't got a written contract will strengthen his case because it's show's lack of care and responsibility on the employer's part. Any employer, in this present day and age, who doesn't supply a written contract between himself and his employees or has a system where employees are being paid different rates of pay for the same job would jump in the air, click their heels, and clap in applause on the suggestion that he doesn't have to supply a contract to his employee!! To run a company you need the trust and confidence of the employees and that's what a fair and honest contract, and fair, honest management provides! You must have read what conditions, or non-conditions to be more precise, Nat has described and he's working under. Do you really think that he should follow your suggestion and not have written contract which is his legal right and put his faith and trust in present employer???! If Nat is going to get proper fair terms and conditions of work and a rate of pay that again he is legally entitled to then with all due respect he should follow the advice given to him from Clueless1, Spruce and myself.
No I'm not recommending that Nat75 should not have a written contract. I think he should push to get a written contract. All I'm pointing out is that companies are not legally obliged to, a verbal contract is the minimum. (I've got to say I wouldn't really want to work for such a company myself and all the above advice from yourself, Clueless1 and Spruce is very helpful).
Hello Nat75 -There are a number of Employment Lawyers around who should be able to advise you as to what your approach should be and what your legal position is, altenatively you may find help at your local CAB. Such situations can be seriously stressful and I would strongly urge you to ascertain your legal position before proceeding......
Hi JWK, I understand what you're saying but all legal advisors in this area of disputes who've I've had contact with would smile at the thought of suggesting a verbal agreement as a "contract" between an employer and employee. The first thing a Tribunal, in a conditions of contract dispute, would do would be to ask for and examine the written contract issued by the company. A verbal contract would have no creditability in court as it would be the employees word against the employers - that's why a written contract is needed - for the protection of both sides. Over the years I've, unfortunately, been to a total of 34 Tribunals [of which I still have the records] representing the different companies I've worked for. In honesty, most of the cases were where the company I was working for was in the wrong but against all advice they're been stubborn and contested the claims. A lot of the claims had begun before I had joined the companies who managers had got them into the mess in the first place. I would be bone honest with the Directors and tell them what I thought the result would be and that it would be better to settle before the Tribunal. In a few cases they did, but in a lot of cases it had become "personal" and they would pursue it to the bitter end. Tribunals are very rigorous and knowledgeable in these disputes and if the company has not stuck rigidly to the correct procedures they will lose the case. Some of the disputes were over such trivial matters and amounts of money to beggar belief! I agree with Barnaby that Nat could go to a Legal Agency for confirmation of his position, but to be honest his case is clear - he is entitled to a fair and honest contract comparable with that of his fellow employees and he is entitled to a rate of pay equal to that of a person doing the same job at a higher rate. The Tribunal would be very cynical of any employer trying to prove they were right in paying a lower rate. I don't envy Nat because he is on the front line with his head buzzing with the uncertainty as to whether or not he should continue or not and I wish him good luck whatever he chooses to do!!
A big THANKYOU Armandii for all the advice you know your stuff alright, I wish I could take you with me when I speak to my boss again, He's away at the moment, back on Friday. As adviced by acas I have put my grievance in writing and will give it to him on Friday, I have also got to make him sign for the letter. Just to let you know I am not a he, I am a she Also Thanks to all for your replys
Do you know, Nat, that is the Second time I have got someone's gender wrong in 2 days!!! I did it with Marley Farley and, as with her, I sincerely apologise for not checking your profile, it's a man thing!! That information changes nothing and if anything merely strengthens my support for you. If you've already written the formal request for an equal standard contract and equal pay you've taken the first step on the road to a legal and fair deal. One last piece of advice: Know you're right in your claim, be confident and assured [but not cocky] in any meetings, please do take the advice about taking a "friend" to a meeting and don't go into a meeting without one, and keep to the rest of the advice I've offered. It takes courage to do what you're doing but the legal system is on your side - as well as Gardeners Corner!! You don't need me or anyone like me at the meetings if you keep calm, take decisions slowly, don't allow yourself to be pressured or bullied, and remember that you are only asking for a fair deal and what is legally your right. I really do wish you luck and hope you pursue your claim to a Industrial Tribunal should it be necessary. Keep us up to date on your claim as I know Spruce, Clueless1, JWK, Daitheplant, Barnaby, Marley Farley and the gang are all behind you on this.
Just to add to this point, or really to reiterate, even if inside you feel nervous and stessed and out of your depth (all perfectly normal feelings in a dispute) outwardly you should appear confident and look as though you know for certain that you are right. If you get asked something you don't know the answer to, don't panic, just tell them you don't know but will find out. If you guess and you are wrong it will weaken you're whole position. If you find yourself in a stalemate, it is easy to get frustrated and annoyed or stroppy. Again perfectly normal feelings but not the best way to react. If it feels like you can't reach an agreement, just tell them calmly that as you don't seem to be able to reach an agreement between yourselves, you feel it necessary to get a third party involved, so will be speaking to ACAS with a view to arranging either mediation or tribunal proceedings. Remember the three unbreakable rules of dispute: 1. Never lose your temper 2. Never be seen to be unsure of your position 3. Never hand it to the other party - in the work situation that means continue to do your job, be punctual etc so he can't pick fault with you if it goes to tribunal. Good luck, and keep us posted. We're on your side.
May I just add to ARMANDII`s advice, when you have the meeting with your " boss ", if you feel intimidated or threatened in any way, don`t respond. Just get up and walk away. Make sure you have a witness with you, though.
[size=large]Good luck from me also, Nat. You boss sounds like a real spiv! Hope you take him to the cleaners![/size]
I have written my letter, wouldn't mind you guys and girls taking a look at it for me I am writing to inform you I wish to raise a grievance. This action is being considered with regard to the following circumstances my hourly rate of pay being less than that of a full time worker doing a similar job, as I understand such discrimination is prohibited by The Part Time Workers(Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000, I would also like to request a copy of my contract. I am entitled to a hearing to discuss this matter, also I am entitled, if I wish to be accompanied by another work colleague. Please reply within 7-14 days. Yours Sincerely Is it ok? Thanks to everyone for your help and support you are fab
[size=large]May I 'polish' that a bit for you, Nat? Dear Mr XX I am writing to inform you that I have a grievance I wish to be formally addressed. This is in respect of the fact that my hourly rate of pay is less than that of my co-workers who are doing a very similar job to me. As I understand it, such discrimination is prohibited by The Part Time Workers(Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 and therefore needs to be amended. I would also like to request a copy of my contract. I am entitled to a hearing to discuss this matter and also to be accompanied by colleague. I look forward to receiving your response which I shall expect before the 18th March 2011. yours sincerely[/size]
Hi Nat, your letter is brief and to the point!! May I suggest a "smoothing" and formalizing of your letter as follows: 1. I am writing to you to inform you that I wish to raise a grievance in accordance with the Part Time Workers [Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment] Regulation 2000. 2. This grievance is with regard to my hourly rate of pay being of a lesser rate than that of a full-time worker doing a similar job within the company. 3. I have not been supplied with a copy of my contract and I now request that I be given such a copy. 4. I also request a formal meeting with management to discuss my grievances. In such a meeting I will be accompanied by another work colleague, acting as a witness and friend, in accordance with my legal entitlement. 5. I would be grateful for a reply to my request as soon as possible. Yours sincerely I'm sure others may have suggestions to your request!!
