Rock Dust

Hi, anybody using rock dust on their veggies, seen it advertised but never used it before.

 

I am a retired professional gardener and now spend my time in the allotment and at the show bench. Take it from me Rock Dust is a secret that most prize exhibitors would rather you didn't know about. I wont go on at length, but I will tell you what happened the first time I used it. I had it recommended to me by the national Gladiolus champion a few years back under the promise not to spread it about. I bought one bag and trialled it at less than half full strength on a bed of beetroot. My wife and I did not know whether to be pleased or not. The roots were all over 9" in diameter, some bigger that the swede! Needless to say too big for show and some too big for the pan! Still they were succulent, tasty and soft, not at all woody.
Rock dust is not expensive in itself (compared to other fertilizers and soil conditioners) but it is heavy and so expensive to transport.
Let me know if you want some, I know a supplier who sells for nearly half the price of Seers.

 

Hmmmm ... I may try some on plants/trees/shrubs in spring ... not expensive ... 4kg costs £7.99 and only needs to be applied every 5 years? ... could also do well with palms in combination with palmbooster liquid fertilizer

Rock Dust 4kg

 

Jim - I find what you say very interesting, and would love to know more.

I am not into growing veg or into competing, but I am fascinated by the principle of extreme gardening - ie growing anything outsize. In large part it to understand how plants grow. I have noticed that when I grow plants such as Nicandra in pots, some plants reach 4 to 5 feet, whilst others grow no more than 1 foot. At the same time I have heard of people who have grown Nicandra to over 8 feet. The one thing that I have learnt is that the bigger the pot the bigger the plant.

I am currently experimenting with gross feeding a range of plants, ie feeding every day. There is no question that Brugmansia benefit enormously. I have also been doing it with some Echiums and Cannas, which also seem to have benefitted. I have often wondered what are the secrets of competition veg growers. I ordered a copy of the only book I could find on the subject, to be told it was out of print.

So I would welcome any information on the subject. For instance if Rock Dust supplies loads of trace minerals, would feeding heavily with say Miraclegro do the same?

 

Hi. I'm a bit busy today so I will have to be quick, though I will get back with more detail later. In short, Rock Dust both re-minerlises soils with a lot of trace elements as well as correcting a wide range of ph. imbalances. To get the best out of your plants; soil, chemical, microbiological, botanical and genealogical sciences all combine to influence the outcome. If you are really interested I will post simplified info in the future. The more you know about how it all interacts, the more you can correct imbalances. But there are some quick things you can do to correct the majority of feeding shortcomings and Rock Dust does a lot of them in one dressing.
Got to take the missus out shopping right now, but I'll be back.

 

Hiya Jim, sorry, but I gotta ask, are you on commission? :D

 

Hi. Freddy, I'm not currently on commission, but now that you mention it I think I'll put a few feelers out to see if any of the suppliers will play ball. 'Rock Dust' of course is a generic name and different suppliers distribute it under various trade names. I think that Seers is the only one that actually has 'rock dust' as part of its name.

 

Jim thanks for your reply. I would love to hear a debate on what really effects the growing process. Its one thing to read books and to know all the things that can influence growth. But its quite another to be able to grow world record sized plants.

And there are so many things that are not discussed. One, on another thread, is what happens if you grow plants under growlights but leave them on for 24 hours a day rather than on a time switch for 14 hours a day. The suggestion was that it was harmful.

However I have seen snippits on the TV about record sized veg grown in Alaska, where it was attributed to the cool climate and long hours of daylight. John Evans and his Record Breaking Giant Vegetables I have a cool climate - but my plants aren't record sized. :D

 

I've been researching fertilizers, especially lawn fertilizers and am reading a lot on a US lawn forum where members are groundsmen at golf courses etc .... they mix their own fertilizers and it is good to learn from these guys ... it's a lot more complex than what I thought it was, but am learning ... one thing in common is that they test the soil before deciding what (and how much) to apply
...
whilst researching fertilizers, John evans's name cropped up often as regards the vegetable growing ... done a bit of google searching and found out that he uses a fertilzer that is made of worm castings plus some extras

the stuff he uses is called fertalive ... it contains contains enzymes, bacteria, fungi, vitamins, amino acids, minerals, microbes, probiotics, humic acid, fulvic acid, yucca, kelp extracts,root cycling nematodes and lots of other things

I'm still reading about all this and trying to understand, but stumbled accross this website and I think it is connected to John?:

http://www.bountea.com/bountea_compost_tea_garden_solutions_giant_vegetables.html

I do have a mobile number of someone who sells john's secret fertilizer, but he is in Ireland, and I don't think it is allowed to make it public on this forum

here is a link to Johns evans's fertalive:
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/21287776/1668168098/name/FertAlive+FAQs.pdf

however, there is a fertilizer recommended by people who grow palms ... it's called palmbooster .... not sure how it acts on vegetables, but will try some with tomatoes next year

 

Dim - thanks for those two links. The base components of Fertalive do look very complicated.

The thoughts that go through my head are 1) Is he a snake oil salesman? How do we know? Admittedly his track record suggests not. and 2) How does an ordinary gardener come across such a recipe, when research organisations such as the RHS and Kew are unable to do so?

I know nothing about Bonsai, and I am sure someone will correct me. But a long time ago a friend of my father showed me round his greenhouse where he was growing Bonsai. And he explained to me that there was no one single magic ingredient - it was a combination of many things. For instance you start with a species that is naturally very small. You starve it of nutrient and possibly water to stunt its growth, you influence it by pruning. You pull off all the first leaves that are large and make it grow a second set, which are much smaller. And you exhibit it when it is looking at its best - it may not look like a prize winning specimen for the rest of the year.

Logic suggests that growing outsized plants may be similar. You start with an outsize species and manipulate many other things to increase it size.

 

These are exactly my thoughts Peter these magic fertilisers do sound a little like the cure all medicines sold by travellers in America mixed with a touch of alchemy , but you never know :D
You can buy a small package of rock dust on ebay for a trial - is this the same stuff you mentioned Jim ? It may be worth a punt if it is .

2.5Kg Rock Dust Organic Fertilizer | eBay

 

Before we get carried away with the idea of giant veg, we have to consider what it tastes like, I cut my lettuce at 100mm high because it has a texture of silk if they were 900mm high they would be like shoe leather.

 

a bit more of fertalive:

snippets from vrious sites:

FertAlive is neither a fertilizer nor a pesticide but a plant booster and soil innoculant. It helps the plant absorb nutrients available in the soil and air by breaking the nutrients down into forms easier for the plant to use. FertAlive helps the plant fight off diseases and pests attack due to balanced plant nutrition resulting to better plant health.

What are its effects on the plants and the soil? The beneficial microbes in FertAlive make their way into the plant and soil. You will notice that after 2 weeks of spraying FertAlive in your plants, the leaves turn into bluish-green or deep green color which is a good sign of a healthy plant.

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based on the above, the part where they say the leaves turn bluish, indicates to me that the nitrogen content is very high .... In South Africa, I used Guana fertilizer on lawns (made from seagull poo), and after 2 days, the grass leaves turned bluish ... the nitrogen content in guana is very high

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and here is a youtube video of John Evans showing (and telling) how to make his compost tea (I might buy this setup/ingredients from him):




and from the internet, here is a similar recipe that the author claims to be very similar to what John Evans uses:

One gallon of non-chlorinated water
1/2 cup high quality garden compost
1/2 cup high quality earth worm castings
2 tablespoons fish hydrolysate (make sure it's HYDROLYSATE!)
1 tablespoon non-sulfured molasses (Same as Black strap)
if you can find this add:
1/4 cup kelp meal
1/8 cup glacial rock dust

Bubble vigorously for 24-36 hrs as you would any tea - more if you want a higher fungal component - better for flowering.

I usually have a gallon of water mixed with 2 tablespoons of dissolved sup-po-mag that I mix with the tea just prior to application.

Strain (or not)
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and .... from another site, this is what they recomend as the activator (the 2nd packet of stuff John Evans added to the brew on his video:

Contains Non-Plant Food Ingredient:
7% Soluble Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum)
7% Humic Acid (derived from leonardite)
7.5% Fermented Soybean & Cottonseed Meal
8% Yucca Schidigera
9% Dehydrated Fish Powder
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and from another forum, use the above recipe and add stuff called biozome (this is apparantly the secret)?

and then the plot thickens .... someone mailed his company quering what is used ... and this is the reply received:

Reply
Yes you are correct. The base of our tea is the Humisoil - it is a
very rich peat humus directly from alaska that is the purest best
soil we could find. The Bioactivator is a booster for the Humisoil -
it has special rna bacteria (the bacteria featured in the BioZome
website) along with food to feed the bacteria so it can grow and
replicate. The Humisoil +Bioactivator helps to restore the ecology
of your soil so your soil is again a living organism that grows your
plants. The M3 is our "fertilizer" rich in nitrogen and essential
minerals. The Rootweb is mycorriza and tricoderma - two very special
types of fungus that establish the root system of your plants.
Attached is an article that explains out product well. Read this and
then let me know if you have any further questions or would like to
make an order.
-----------------
and lastly ... from another site that explains John Evans' product:

Why does the living solution help so much?

Well, the living solution really is what soil consists of. There are a bunch of different
layers of biology that are all feeding on each other, assisting each other and breaking
down the mineral compositions in the soil and allowing the plant to up-take bio available
nutrients. That is the key for Bountea, the bio availability.
The next product beyond the bio activator and the humus is a fungal activator. You
want to increase the amount of fungus that is in your soil; because fungus breaks down
phosphorus and potassium and calcium and if you want to break down those heavy bloom
nutrients, a load of fungus is the great way to do it. So the fungal activator is how we do
that.
Our next products are vegetative formula for fertilizer, it’s called M3 marine mineral
magic, it’s a 6-0-0 natural high nitrogen formula; the bacteria loves nitrogen and that
helps the vegetative state for your plant, the green growth. Then we have the B3 which is
a higher phosphorus potassium product; so that really helps to set bloom, set flower node
sites, allow for healthy blossoms; so those 2 fertilizers are really complete systems for
growing any kind of plant. Whether using one or the other or the 2 of them combined,
that will covers all you fertilizer needs. So the Bountea Better Bloom, the B3 is high
phosphorus potassium product, really great for setting flower node sites and assisting a
healthy bloom.
We have a Superstart for planting and transplanting. I use a handful of humus and a pinch
of Superstart underneath your root bulbs when you are planting or transplanting and that
really gives your plant a superstart.
We have Superfood, not to be confused with Superstart. It’s for the those that want to get
their house plants an easy boost – it has a little bit of nutrition, a little bit of biology and
food for that biology. It’s a pressed tab – you throw one tab into a gallon of water and feed
that to your house plants. I have a ton of orchids and I’ve been doing it for the last year
and almost all my orchids are reflowering, which is amazing.
So Rootweb is a mycorrhizae product; we have endo-mycorrhizae and ecto-mycorrhizae
and trichoderma. Tricoderma is a predatory fungus. It’s a product you want to use once
in a grow cycle, or if it’s an outdoor environment, maybe once or twice a year at most.
Once the fungus roots have established, they’re there and they cultivate, then they’re assisting that nutrient and uptake
through the root system into the plant.

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so based on all the above:

use some rock dust, some rootgrow, some worm castings, some good organic compost, a bit of guano bat manure, some kelp, some fish hydrolysate, some humic acid, a bit of superphospate .... add a handfull of wondergro ....

place all this in a bucket, fill with evian spring water .... add a fishtank pump and let it brew for a week ... but be careful incase it explodes

Hmmmm .... maybe? ... maybe not?