Wanna take a short questionnaire?

Nope, I'm deffo 50-65! But there was a sense when I was young of boundaries and authority breaking down, and rebellion was the thing to do. Swearing seemed like part of that. Of course, I now see the down-side of this and think our society could do with a few more boundaries - but the genie's probably well and truly out of the bottle.

For example, I hate seeing swear words, puns on swear words or slangy speech in public places, like on adverts. This has become quite common. I suppose I think that swearing in private company where the usage is appropriate is very different from seeing it on a public hoarding where you can't avoid it.

You're probably right about the low standards, despite teachers having obediently carried out every government directive to remedy this since the early 80s, but my spelling and grammar is fine and I have no trouble expressing myself, it's just that sometimes swearing helps me to express myself even more!

As a teacher of small children I come up against this issue in the classroom. I can't tell them that swearing is bad. They hear their parents swear, and I swear myself, though not at work, so it would be hypocritical. Instead I say that the words are banned in school and that it is important to learn how to speak appropriately in all situations. Even if they hear other people swearing it is not appropriate in school, and they can accept that readily.

 

I completely agree with you, and I have noticed it myself here in France too. But the point is that it is not only swearing which is way more frequent, but slang in general as well as a poor grammar and vocabulary... This is really striking on the internet (especially on social networks...)!

I don't know... Maybe because the "C-word" also refers to femininity in general, and since the feminist movement has gained quite a certain power, this word also conveys a strong misogynistic connotation... The "P-word" (to my knowledge...) refers only to people who are considered as stupid, so it may have less impact...

Exactly, swearing was a way to rebel and and linguistically get on the same level as men. This actually could explain why teenagers swear way more than before. Maybe the problem does not so much come from a worse education, but from a bigger gap between adults and teenagers. Then, teenagers use speech to create an identity of their own in order to separate from adulthood by saying something like "hey, we definitely don't want to be like you, so we use words that you believe should be avoided", so as to break rules and norms...

It may not be the universal explanation, but some studies actually showed that for some children/teenagers at least, this was the case...

 

Good morning Michael. G. et al,
I'm a bit hors de combat at the moment. Nursey says I should keep my foot up for 2 weeks and, although it's impossible, the likes of this thread on GC have made is SO much easier. I have enjoyed reading all the contents of this thread (without even looking at the questionnair- apologies) but I can relate to much of it too. I am a 69 year old female with a smattering of "boylike" genes that I know made me enjoy learning to emit a piercing whistle through 4 fingers, trying to throw a ball further than other females, and developing larger than average upper arm muscles. I think a lot of how we are or behave has to do with our natural character. I do NOT like to hear banal profanity - such as that used by a certain "chef" . It demeans the value of this special niche of language. I do, especially when cross, use the f word and a few others but genitalia reference I would not be comfortable with at any time. A bit prudish maybe. But,notwithstanding all that has been expressed, I am so grateful that we have freedom of speech in this landand a beautifully rich and comprehensive language with which to express ourselves. Is it soooo very precious.
I thank you all for your "entertainment" this morning,
sincerely,
Jenny namaste

 

Thank YOU Jenny for paying attention to this thread, and for your opinion and comments.

I agree, and this is probably because of this "over-use" of profanity, that it lost of its impact, and a little like a vicious circle, since it lost of its impact, it is used more often and so on...

Anyway, I hope your foot will heal soon...

Thanks again.

 

Apparently, or so we were told at a medieval battle re-enactment show once, our contempt for some words as opposed to others is something that has been drilled into us over generations and dates back at least as far as the Norman conquest. Obviously the Norse traitors beat our Anglo-Saxons, (it wasn't French vs English as many believe, the Normans were mainly made up of Scandinavians that had occupied Northern france). Since then, and I can't remember which was round it is, but words with Norman origins are held in a different light to those with Anglo-Saxon origin. In fact, or so I'm told, many of our swear words are in fact old English (or old Norman language (not french)) words that were made bad through a propaganda effort to make one language prevail over the other. Of course back then, I doubt if anyone could have guessed that we'd end up with a mish mash of both, and numerous otehr languages besides, and that a thousand years on nobody would really care one or the other anyway, except for a bit of light hearted fun poking at our former rivals.

 

Merci mon ami. Tout va bien

 

Slang has always been common - well, going back as far as we have written documentation, anyway, and a "correct" form of language. Language is constantly evolving and even in our own lifetimes we can see and hear many changes. These are not necessarily wrong - just changes. Some will be discarded and will become part of a quaint and obsolete patois associated with the early 21st century. Some will going on to be considered a grammatically correct and legitimate part of the language in future times. The internet and use of texting has probably hugely accelerated the changes in the way we express ourselves becaue it's all so new, but most of those usages will be absolutely the norm by the time the present young generation are grandparents.

For now, I'm with Shiney on the correct -as we see it today- version of standard English. The greengrocer's apostrophe drives me nuts and the fewer/less issue has me frothing at the mouth!

Do you think we will always have forbidden words in the language? At the moment they're sexual ones, 'cos we're still a bunch of Victorian prudes at heart, but they could be other words, to do with death or illness for example. Is there a deep-seated psychological need for banned words?

 

I think that forbidden words, as well as every forbidden thing, are related to the society we live in, and to the evolution and ways of thinking of it. Religious expletives like "damn it" or "bloody..." were once probably the most offensive words, because religion has a much bigger influence on people's life and beliefs as it has now, so today, where religion has less influence, such words have considerably lost of their impact I believe.

It may be the same with the "F-word". Since nowadays sexuality is a lesser taboo as it was a few generations ago, it may be one explanation why people use it more.

Since every society will always have new taboos and "incorrect" things, there will probably always have new ways to express strong feelings, hurt or shock... Don't you think?

 

Sorry to digress a tad but your reference the grocergrocer's aposthrophe compells me to voice an opinion on the expression*, used even in the BBC news for example :

* " He is now critically ill in hospital etc. ...." . When this relates to a guy whose plane malfunctioned and fell from the sky. He ain't ill, he didn't catch something from someone /somewhere. He is just (dont mean this in a derisory sense ) very critically injured.
There , I feel selfishly better now. My apologies,
Jenny namaste

 

Seeing as we're digressing (as usual), here's my pet hate when it comes to bad language.

Occasionally on the news we hear that someone has been done for murder. Sometimes they murdered two people. Does the news report that the person got done for two counts of murder? Maybe it is worded that they got done for the murder of two people. No. These days it seems they did a 'double murder'. Now call me old fashioned, call me an unimaginative narrow minded fool if you wish, but how on earth does one commit 'double murder'. Is that where they murdered somebody twice? The victim died, was resurrected, and was murdered again by the original perpetrator? No wonder they're getting done. That's not just wrong, its black magic.

 

OK. A sentence containing 4 words, two of one word followed by 2 of the other. I'm not greedy - answers on a £5 pound note will suffice.
Jenny namaste

 

OK then, forget the £5 tag. Just give me an answer to a sentence containing 4 words : 1st two identical then the 2nd two identical but different to the first 2.
No fee .....
Jenny namaste

 

Will will bill Bill (William will bill Bill, for the tickets)

Jack McH