Garden Centre trees

Hi,
I was looking at Crab Apple Trees in Dobbies.
They all seem to be grafted onto "foreign" roots.
Is this normal.?
Why do they do it.?
What are the Advantages/Disadvantages.?
Does it make a difference.?

Where would I get trees grown "naturally".

thanks
Howard

 

Grafting is the normal form of propagation for trees if you are actually wanting a specific variety.

You can grow from seed but its not likely you will get what you want.

Buy grafting onto a rootstock you get exactly the variety you want, and in many cases you will also get a tree of the desired size.

As for trees grown naturally?

I dont think any nursery would be selling seed grown crab apples.
But I could be wrong.

 

Presumably the parent was also on a grafted rootstock, so even a rooted cutting wouldn't produce the same tree as the parent.

There is another reason for not using seed. All plants go through a juvenile stage, when they are not sexually mature. That means that they cannot flower or bear fruit. It is only when they become adults that they can flower and fruit. The juvenile phase may only last a few weeks for garden flowers but can last many years for trees - up to 20 for a Wisteria and up to 40 for a Beech tree. However a cutting (rooted or grafted) is a clone of the parent, so a cutting from an adult tree is also an adult, and can start to bear fruit within a shorter period.

 

A crab on its own roots would be big. Have you got a really big garden?
You can take cuttings of ordinary apple trees and grow them on their own roots. However as already said they would take a long time to come into fruit. They make lovely trees but people would need very tall ladders to pick the fruit. By using a root stock the nurseyman can also say what size the tree will eventually make.
You could probably get crabs on their own roots but it would be a nursery that specialised in native trees such as oak, ash etc. You would not know what the flowers , fruit would eventually look like and they would get quite big. Only really suitable if you are planting a natural hedgerow or new woodland.

 

Thanks folks,
I am filling an acre of adjoining land with wildlife friendly trees.
Keeps the builders away from my boundary and brings the colourful wildlife to my door.
Win win situation.
OK so maybe root stock isn't all bad. especially for an impatient non-gardener like me.!

thanks
Howad

 

Howard, if you have an acre to fill, why pay Dobbie's prices? At this time of year you can bear root year old trees for about 50p each if you buy in bulk. I got 50 crab apples and 50 hazels last year and the total bill, including delivery and VAT, was only about £80.

I can't remember for certain where I got them but I'm 99% sure it was here:
http://www.hedgenursery.co.uk/browse/crab-apple-malus-sylvestris-46/

 

Thanks Clueless.
Ill give investigate that further.
I'm no millionaire, 30 quid a tree is a hefty price.!

thanks
Howard

 

Exactly. That's why I bought mine in batches of 50 for about ten bob each. The garden centre ones are generally geared up for small gardens, being a graft of one specially cultivated rootstock with a different cultivar on top. The cheap bare root ones are, I believe, all native. No grafts and meant for bulk purchase for hedging and the likes. For the price of one tree at the garden centres you could have 50 or more bare root ones from online hedge suppliers.

Its horses for courses really. Someone wanting a single tree to go in a large container on the patio wouldn't want to buy 25 bare root year old saplings that probably won't flower for a couple of years, but someone building a hedge or a woodland won't want to spend 30 per tree when they need hundreds of them.

Out of interest, in addition to crab apples, what else are you planning to put in your wildlife woods?

 

"Ten Bob", clueless:hehe: You're going to leave a lot of members baffled.:lollol:

 

Hi Clueless,
Other trees are Oak and Horse Chestnut, we have seen Red Squirrels over the hill and hope to entice some over.
We have various Ash trees with berrries ( errr... they are called Rowan trees up here )
Scots Pine, Spruce are already established as we live in what was a farm outbuilding ( bothy ).
Any suggestions welcomed really.

Howard

 

Ash and Rowan are two different species. Rowan is sometimes called Mountain Ash, but it's not really an Ash.

If you're after tempting the squirrels over, and certainly they need all the habitat they can get because they are struggling, why not chuck in some Hazels too. That supplier I pointed you at sells them nice and cheaply, and they are quite fast growing.

I have to admit I know next to nothing about squirrels apart from what they eat, I don't know where they build their homes, but perhaps that's something to think about too. Its all very well providing forage for them, but they presumably need good living quarters too.

 

Squirrels just need nesting boxes high up, that is on my list.

 

Try putting in some birch and you have already mentioned Rowan. those two are very fast and get up high quickly. I have used them in the past as nurse trees. Other trees such as oak and the true ash grow much better with some shelter and the nurse trees provide that. Oak will grow tall quite quickly with shelter. Red squirrels tend to run out of food in deciduous woods round about June so some conifers such as scots pine are good for them. However I would tend to group the pines together as they are not very competitive with some of the other trees and can get swamped.
I have also planted a shrub layer of hazel, holly and guelder rose - lovely red berries in winter, also blackthorn and dog rose. A good specialist tree nursery can provide them as one year slips and you plant them quickly. Dig ther spade in, prise the slit apart with the spade, lift and stick in the sapling and then firm with the foot.

 

Blackthorn is great, but it spreads like crazy. That is not a bad thing provided you've allowed for it. It spreads by runners just below the ground, and can send out new trees several metres away from the 'parent' tree. For that reason, I wouldn't plant it near a boundary with someone else's land where they are using the land for anything else, because they'll fall out with you if they keep getting blackthorn saplings popping up all over the place

Blackthorn is also great if you have an open fire or solid fuel stove at home. The wood burns really well, and because of the growth habit of blackthorn it needs fairly regular severe haircuts anyway, otherwise it all mats together and blocks out light from the ground. My blackthorn thicket was just a mass of tangled dead wood when I took on the land, but we cut a lot of it down last winter, leaving just the stumps with a few side shoots on. Last time I checked it was all growing back nicely, and lots of new vegetation had appeared on the ground.

The only thing is though, things nest in the matted thicket, so it is important to thin it in stages, stop immediately if you find an in-use nest (as we did last year), and do it outside of the main nesting period which I think runs from late spring to late summer. Also, it won't be an issue for a few years if you've just planted stuff, but when thinning stuff out you need to be aware of the various regulations. You may need permission to cut a tree if it is more than 10cm wide 1 metre up. The forestry commission website tells you all about it, and when I've been unsure in the past, I've always found Defra are surprisingly helpful for a government body when it comes to giving advice about the legal side of things. I've emailed them a couple of times and they've always got back to me with clear and informative answers.

 

try this lot

http://www.perriehale.co.uk/.

You will need tree shelters