Rules of the road - opinions please

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    Now, obviously I am going to believe that I am in the right here as I wouldn't have made the manoeuvre if I didn't - however, I am willing to be corrected (nobody is perfect, not even me [​IMG])

    As I was exiting work today, I did as I have done for many years and pulled out of the gates (turning right) across into the 'Keep Clear' area that is all but directly opposite the gates for our premises; (see below):

    keep clear.jpg

    Now, as you can see the keep clear is there purely so that vehicles exiting the garage are not left either waiting years for traffic to let them out, or worse left blocking the carriageway in the other direction if they have moved out to make their presence known to get traffic to let them in. Indeed, I remember the traffic order being arranged for the Keep Clear to be created, and this was the basis for that traffic order.

    As I arrived at the exit, there was a line of standing traffic, and at the 'back' of the keep clear area was a police van. I waited for a moped to pass (travelling down the offside of the standing traffic) and then once clear I pulled out into the Keep Clear and sat waiting for the traffic to move. One of the officers got out of the van, knocked on my window and remonstrated with me for pulling into the keep clear area - I explained to the officer that the keep clear was there to allow vehicles to pull out of the garage safely and that is where I had come from, but he was adamant that I was in the wrong and that I shouldn't have done it because I was in a car and not a bus (inferring that if a bus had made the same manoeuvre that it would have been OK). Now, I was in a bit of a hurry so decided best not to argue too much, so simply said fair enough, I'll turn left out of the garage in future and do a turn around up the road.

    However, besides the fact that it was somewhat petty (or trivial to use the officer's own words), I remain convinced that the keep clear is there to allow vehicles to pull safely out of the garage without causing obstruction - exactly what I did - and by its very nature, that manoeuvre would then mean that the vehicle was subsequently left sitting in the keep clear momentarily until the traffic moves. I am not aware of any restriction on vehicle type, and if the manoeuvre is illegal as the officer is inferring, then that surely either negates the keep clear being there or it means that each and every bus that uses it is also committing an illegal manoeuvre?

    Opinions please?
     
  2. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Bored copper.

    Its not a yellow box, so you don't have to wait for the exit to be clear till you pull into it.

    Its there purely for the purpose you said and he's talking out of his bottom.

    Go down the nick & ask them to justify what he said in writing, they won't do it.
     
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    • RandyRos

      RandyRos Gardener

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      well I personally thought that KEEP CLEAR's were supposed to be kept clear by everybody. I wouldn't have pulled out unless the traffic was moving, so I could keep with the flow. But I always err on the side of caution when driving. Especially when there's coppers about, they'll do anything to get a few more quid off the poor motorist.

      FC, I think you were very bold and I applaud you for it. As for the law on the issue, I have no idea. But buses are arseholes, too
       
    • RandyRos

      RandyRos Gardener

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      Thanks Zig, I shall remember that law.
       
    • RandyRos

      RandyRos Gardener

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      :oopss: another word to add to the swear filter?
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        But surely if the traffic is moving, then the keep clear wouldn't be being kept clear (traffic moving through it) and if vehicles had to wait for traffic to be moving before pulling out, then the keep clear becomes redundant?

        PS - not all bus drivers are arseholes; as with all professions, there are good and bad, and invariably its the bad ones that get remembered. My colleagues and I work hard to try and ensure that all of our drivers behave well on the road, however when you have nearly 400 staff, you cannot be upsides with each of them all the time.

        Thanks Zigs - I was sure I was in the right; in fact, he did recoil a little when I stated that it was for vehicles pulling out of the bus garage which is where I had just come from, and then came back with the 'but you're not in a bus' argument. I wonder if he realised at that point he was on a non-starter.

        In some respects its a shame I was in a bit of a rush, or I could have invited him into my office to justify his reasoning.
         
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        • clueless1

          clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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          If it had been a box junction (yellow box with yellow criss-crossed lines), then the copper would have been right.

          However when its just 'keep clear', it means don't stop there unless the flow of traffic, which you're in, stops in front of you or there is some other hazard or obstruction impeding your progress.

          Trouble is, you can't tell a copper he's wrong, because he can just find a fault with your car and make you wrong, or if there is no fault he can make one. No word of a lie, I once saw a copper smash a car's tail light with his truncheon, then walk round to the driver, and tell him he was committing an offence because he had a busted tail light. I was on foot on the other side of the road when it happened, in the dark, and I don't think the coppers saw me otherwise I'd have instantly become a suspect for whatever crime might have happened in the area.
           
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          • Webmaster

            Webmaster Webmaster Staff Member

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            I would also argue the fact that the 'Keep Clear' is written so that traffic in the stream of flow are able to read it, hence if you are pulling into the Keep Clear box from the station, it shouldn't matter what vehicle you are in, you can enter the box, I am also guessing there is no sign as you exit the station saying 'No right hand turns' or 'turn left only' ?

            In which case, I would have been happy to escort the officer back to base and point this out to them ;)

            I would also like to add, I am seriously considering adding a video camera to my work van, as it would be nice to have video evidence of idiots :) .... I've been thinking Hero GoPro2 ..... This type of thing would have caught out the officer ;)

            You may like this ..... Policeman caught out

             
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            • Phil A

              Phil A Guest

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              :biggrin: That so reminds me of the copper that illegally searched me on my allotment, having gone thru my entire seed bag and finding it contained seeds & not drugs, he held up an empty re sealable bag, clearly marked Giant Hogweed. & said "Wots this then?" I replied, "Giant Hogweed Seeds." He said, (in a slow voice) "But there's nothing in it"
              I said, (In an even slower voice) "Thats because i've planted them"
               
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              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                I'm not sure if its simply that the power goes to their head when the don the uniform, or that they simply have so much to remember that it becomes a bit fuzzy at times - I'd like to think its the latter.
                 
              • clueless1

                clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                What do school bullies do when they leave school? Most of them grow up and stop being bullies.

                What if a bully doesn't grow out of it? He/she has to choose a path in life that satisfies their need to bully people.

                The copper in the video that the boss posted shows exactly what happens when you stand up to a bully. The throw a huff. Same as when I stood up to the coppers that came to my house in the early hours once and started trying to accuse me and wife for some event that we knew nothing about and probably never even happened.
                 
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                • Phil A

                  Phil A Guest

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                  Nathan's Video and the follow on ones have had me spellbound for the last hour, good find Nate:dbgrtmb:

                  I've mentioned it before, but the 2 coppers on my allotment did an illegal search for about half an hour, went thru everything, as they couldn't accept that a young ish lad would want an allotment for anything other than growing LSD & Ecxtacy.

                  They assumed I was on the dole, being first thing on a weekday morning. When I told them I worked at the College of Law, they instantly turned & walked away.
                   
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                  • gcc3663

                    gcc3663 Knackered Grandad trying to keep up with a 4yr old

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                    Highway Code info:-
                    "Keep Clear" markings are used to indicate to drivers where the road should be kept clear of waiting or parked vehicles to allow access to side roads. These markings can only be provided on roads where there are no existing waiting restrictions. However, obstruction in residential areas is mainly caused by residents who know that side road is in use. In these cases, provision of a white 'Keep Clear' marking is unlikely to solve the problem.

                    Hope that helps "a little"
                     
                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    I've seen this kind of "Keep Clear" on the roads in a couple of places around here, and to be honest I have been totally confused, up to now, why they are there.

                    Thanks for enlightening me, but must admit to feeling guilty crossing into one of those spaces from titme to time.
                    To me "Keep Clear", means KEEP CLEAR, so me driving into that spot did feel wrong.

                    I think a new kind of box needs inventing to be put in such areas, as it is it's confusing.
                     
                  • gcc3663

                    gcc3663 Knackered Grandad trying to keep up with a 4yr old

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                    Maybe we can change it to say:-
                    Keep Clear for FC & his Bus.
                    That should clear things up a bit :ideaIPB:
                     
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