New high speed rail link

They'll have just got young kids and peasant families to do the work for long hours for not enough to live on. Britain was built on the shoulders of hard working people living in poverty and squalor, under the command of the rich. They achieved a tremendous amount, making us, as a nation, world leaders. But would it be right to compare attitudes then with now? I hope not.

In any case, avoiding a bit of disruption for a few commuters is not a good reason to turf families from their homes and communities.

 

It happened down here, it was not good, houses were blighted for years while they decided on the final route.
If you want progress it comes at a price.
If not we just stagnate under the same pity full transport system that we have now.

I'm not for rail personally, I never use it, but if the North of the country wants the benefits and the so called prosperity of the South they need to take the rough with the smooth.
Personally I wished the channel tunnel and the rail link had not been built, now it has, unless it moves North of London (high speed)there is no point.

 

Jack, some people have to travel in order to work.
Not everyone lives at a computer screen.
Personally I dont see this as a commuter link.

 

I can't speak for all of us northerners, but I'm quite happy with the what we have up here in the north.

There is no more prosperity down south in real terms. Yes, London salaries are considerably more than, say, Newcastle or Sunderland salaries for the same job, but then cost of living is considerably higher too. I did a stint down south. Went for the 'amazing' wages. I very quickly discovered that those amazing wages didn't last after I'd paid the equally amazing rent for my modest house.

I've tackled the underground regularly. Not any more thanks. The 'worst' commute for me up north was in my last job, where I had to drive for a whole 45 minutes on relatively free flowing roads while listening to the radio, in order to get to work.

Business is doing well up here too. Directors of successful businesses are not daft. They know they can pay us less than they have to pay the southerners who are used to (and need) higher salaries, so we're doing ok up here really by comparison to the rest of the country.

 

I'm amused to see that some think the north of England stops at Manchester Airport
Also what about Scotland, have we devolved from them already and nobody told me
What this country needs is income, not more mindless expenditure. I think we should take that 30 billion and invest it in state of the art manufacturing, in up and coming industries such as re-newable energy. We have the education structure already in place, we just need to get rid of the David Beckham PHD's and encourage and promote skills like engineering, design etc. There are developing countries out there that really need such things as solar energy on a large scale.

This would increase our exports, create jobs and a highly skilled work force, give our education system some direction and allow re-development of areas such as the north east who have suffered as industry has disappeared. Oh and one final point, we have plenty of brownfield sites to use, no need to kick anyone out of their homes!

 

You hit the nail on the head C1, but you would perhaps be surprised how many from up north come south in the hope of work and a bit more money.
We see pictures of rows and rows of deserted houses, which nobody wants, we are told.

I know its not the full picture, but you must admit the North/ South divide is often talked about.

 

I personally don't believe the north/south divide even exists any more, at least not outside of people's minds.

We all move about a lot more than used to be the case, and technology increasingly means we don't have to move about in order to work directly with people who may be on the other side of the world. If there is still a north/south divide, I think it is only in people's perceptions. For example, on Teesside in the last few years there's been massive investment in regeneration, loads of recent new big business, our main trunk road connecting us to to Middlesbrough and to the major trunk roads. Yet I guarantee you'll still find people who, despite being able to see these changes with their own eyes, will tell you that those 'such and such' southerners always get all the investment. Likewise, I know from having spent time down south, that there's no shortage of people who, in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, believe all us northerners are either flat cap wearing pigeon fanciers or Neanderthal thugs.

North/south divide, just perception.

Don't get me wrong, we do need infrastructure improvements. Of that I have no doubt, but I fear that HS2 is as much about perception as the north/south divide is. To people who will be displaced, to communities destroyed, it will make a massive difference in real terms in a negative way. To commuters it will make negligible difference, and in fact might even make things worse, because rail fares are going to go up to pay for it all. In perception terms outside of the UK, there might be some benefit. If our government is seen to be making improvements, then it might attract foreign investment, which might pay back some of the cost, and most certainly will make more money change hands but not necessarily with any net gain.

 

Very well put FC.

 

I totally agree, the definition of madness is to to keep doing the same thing but expect different results.

 

Tragically so very famously in WW1. We've all heard of 'The Big Push', where the top brass figured it would be a good idea to make the lads get out of the trenches and walk at the enemy. Less well known is that they tried this strategy nearly 20 times before they accepted it was a daft idea.

 

But how is this going to help the 'country', if it's only stopping in about 5 places? All that billions and billions of pounds to benefit people who live near those 5 places.
Maybe they should improve what we have, so that it benefits EVERYBODY!!

 

I wish there was an 'agree a lot' button!! I totally agree with everything that you'd just said Armandii!

 

Rosa there is an agree button, bottom right of your posts there's a green tick, just hit it.