Israel

I may be stating the obvious but the US don't get involved because there's no money in it right? I may be missing the point but I doubt it.

 

There are probably other reasons too...

"...
It’s one of the oldest canards in American politics — the claim that Jewish Americans are single-issue voters whose support goes to those candidates with the most hawkish views on Israel.
This myth has had a hold on American politics for decades, and it’s taken a serious toll on American foreign policy in the Middle East.
In particular, fear of political consequences has led U.S. politicians and policy makers to back away from asserting the active leadership needed to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
..."​

 

Yes, you're missing the point!
The US are involved in as much as they sell hardware to Israel, tend not to condemn them, and (much like the UK and France amongst others) share intelligence.

 

Ah, so they don't get involved because there is money in it.

 

And I'm usually described as cynical!

 

A tad confused now. So why are they not involved? Because they're making loads on selling military hardware and don't want that to stop? Or because there is no resources to 'acquire' such as, I don't know, oil?

 

..........................

 

That's not really helped but thanks anyway.

 

Let's put it another way - it's a local spat so there is no need for anyone else to get involved.
But.............. the Israelis receive support as above, Hamas receive support from Iran.

 

I enjoy a good debate as it always make me think and sometimes re-consider my own point of view.

Egypt, Jordan and the PLO weren't living in the equivalent of a concentration camp, they had to find peace with them, plus they don't occupy land that Israel considers theirs. Hamas stated only last week if their demands were tabled, they would come to peace talks but the Israelis refuse to discuss anything because this suits their bigger agenda which is to wipe out every Palestinian.

And the Palestinians can bring anything in they want can they? No, they can't, they are subjected to restrictions. I watched a fascinating documentary a couple of years ago which was all about what the Palestinians were bringing through the tunnels, everything from cars to children's toys and sweets. I'm sorry Longk, I'm correct and you are incorrect.

Imagine if Scotland won independence and England didn't like it so we put up a massive fence with armed guards along the border and warships surrounding the coast land. Then we told them they could only ride donkeys and eat porridge. Oh, and they can't leave? How long would it before the Scots started to fight back in anyway they could?

Ok, lets say Hamas are using civilians as a human shield. Where in the Geneva convention does is say, "oh, in that case bomb away"?!

I'm sure the Egyptians are sick of this constant unrest on their doorstep. Perhaps Israel should sit down and talk to Hamas properly then?

Lol! I have seen so much "Arab" hatred towards the Gaza residents, I think we can safely say those feelings are demonstrated on both sides.

Just a couple of insignificant countries then ;-)

Are you suggesting that the Palestinians should evacuate to another Muslim country? I think the Israelis government should find some humanity and remember a child is child, the whole world over.

 

There is NOT a long history of women of the ilk you describe. They are far, far outnumbered by men who still carry out the most horrendous crimes imaginable.

It is rare for a child to be reared by a male only. Too rare to be used as a comparison.

In your experience. Again, too insignificant to be used as a comparison.
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Clue, I hope this was a tongue in cheek comment - somewhat trite for this discussion. The sort of female both you and @longk referred to in the post thereafter were not trained soldiers. Both sexes, when fired up with too much alcohol, behave abnormally and these females would NOT be the ones chosen to represent a cause as serious as the one in discussion here.
I despair of mankind in the Arab States. Their value of life is cheap, dispensable and to regard women, children and the elderly as fair game is abhorrent. It has always been ever thus and looks continued to be so and MEN are to blame for that,
Jenny namaste

 

Phew!

The difference is that those three regimes were led by people with something other than wanton murder on their mind.

Be that as it may, their primary demand is that the State of Israel no longer exists. On that they refuse to budge and they are clear about that. So a pretty empty offer when all said and done.

Fair enough, I do agree that there are two types of tunnels. The paramilitary ones and the commercial ones built by smugglers (largely using child labour I might add, at the cost of over a hundred childrens lives I believe). I guess that I saw a different documentary?
The Karram (on the Israeli/Egyptian border) crossing has not been closed except after attack up until the latest onslaught.

Where in the Geneva convention does it say that terrorists can use human shield?

Well, in all fairness those well known respecters of human rights, Russia and China, do recognize Hamas as a lawful government.

Not at all. What I'm suggesting is that if this latest Egyptian regime proves to be as stable and non-confrontational as it appears to be so far then maybe Gaza could be put under their wing, with a properly elected government and Egyptian troops on the ground to control subversive/terrorist elements.

Why do people keep using the emotive word of child. Child, adult or OAP, it makes no difference. A life is a life, no matter which side of the Israeli/Gaza border it is on, or for that matter wherever it may be in the world.

 

you are entirely missing my point, a man doesn't get up one day and say, I know, I'll be a terrorist. Terrorism is borne out of genocide, persecution and poverty.

If their is no aggressor they can stand behind civilians all day and no harm will come of them. Israel claims to be above this type of behaviour, I look forward to the day they demonstrate it.

This issue is not Egypt's issue why should Israel shirk is responsibility?

50% of the population is under 18 so I expect they did the best they could with the manpower they had. Thanks for confirming that there are supply tunnels, thanks to the punitive restrictions imposed on the Palestinians.

Blowing children up whilst sleeping in a UN compound after they have already been driven from their homes is the worst type of terrorist violence. Yes, I called Israeli troops terrorists.

Finally for your information this is Hamas's demands, I see no evidence of your claims

1- Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.

2 -Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.

3 - Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.

4 - Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.

5 - Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.

6 - Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.

7 - International forces on the borders.

8 - Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.

9 - Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.

10 -Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Unreasonable bunch, aren't they

 

Yes.
It is also indoctrinated into the vulnerable, and used as a cover phrase for those who have bloodlust.

You are correct. But who is the aggressor? He who strikes first or he who reacts?

Neither is Gaza Israels responsibility. There was a time when a similar solution was broached with Jordan in that role.

The supply tunnels are operated for financial gain. The basics (and I concede that is what they were) got through overland.

Blowing children up with rockets whilst they sleep in their own beds is equally unacceptable.

Whilst some are reasonable, others are untenable bearing in mind the activities of Hamas.
The death of all Jews is a matter of record in Hamas constitution. It goes along the lines of "we will kill the Jew. The trees that they hide behind will tell us where they hide" or something along those lines. Within the last week a Hamas spokesman reiterated that they will never accept Israel on the World Service.

There is a long history, but certainly not in the numbers of men I agree. East Timor has a female dictator who personally beheaded political opponents.

As my experience (and by inference, opinion) is insignificant, I am now sadly withdrawing from this thread.