House of Lords blocking 'commons' bill

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. Jiffy

    Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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    You didn't misled me, if i had £35,000 per year i would be rich, i live on alots less than £35.000, then with a wage of £35,000 i could buy a newer car( which will stop people who say things like "your're not still driving that thing are you) a new computer,ipad,smart phone and a 50inch tv which i can't aford at the moment
     
  2. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    Anyone think that tax credits are propping up businesses who get away with paying low wages, because they know their workers will get their money made up.

    I've actually worked with people who have turned down overtime because they will lose handouts if their wages go above a certain level, these are people doing a full time job on the same hourly rate as me.
    Ok, I dont have any kids to support but why should my taxes be higher than theirs, because in effect that is what is happening.
    If you cant afford the kids, or quite often these days, two separate families, then tie a knot in it.
     
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    • Kandy

      Kandy Will be glad to see the sun again soon.....

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      @pete i have worked with ladies like that.They do all the overtime that is going and rake in the money but when it came to the time of showing the benefit people their wage slips to get the credits because they are on low wages they would tell the boss that they couldn't do any extra work so there was me having to work all the overtime I could to give us extra income to keep the roof over our heads and help pay the bills and they were taking the pxxs and getting extra for doing sod all.It used to make me so :mad:

      As we have no kids we have never ever got any tax or child benefits as they used to call it so like you we have worked all our lives to keep others:sad:
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        Well, the Tories weren't voted in with a Blank Cheque nor were the Cuts spelled out in any detail, Clanless. Also Mr Cameron specifically said that he would not touch Welfare and yet Mr Osborne has done just that. I think all of us would agree that the Welfare System needs reforming but Mr Osborne seems to be on a crusade to force things through without any real explanation of what he wants to do to the MP's or those people who will be affected be the cuts. He has avoided debating it or discussing the details in Parliament by forcing it through as Statutory Legislation, and has basically pressurised Ministers and MP's and those who should have known better to vote in the Bill. I, for one. don't want Bills passed in Parliament without them being explainedto the MP's and the Nation otherwise what's the point of Parliament and Democracy?
        If you watched the House of Lords debate, and I did, you would have seen that there were 4 basic options [a] a "Fatal" vote that would kill the Bill....and none in the House of Lords wanted that. A "regret" vote, put forward by the Church of England, that would acknowledge the hardship being forced on low wage working families but regreted the Government was doing while voting the Bill in.........now wonder congregations in the Churches are shrinking. [c] 2 quite similar motions to vote against the Bill in it's present form asking the Government to rethink the Bill and whilst still going ahead with the cuts to just phase in the cuts instead of a total immediate cut. It's probably the first time I've actually thought the House of Lords had earned at least some of their pay.
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          The "it's not constitutional or legal" argument by the Government is like that of a child stamping his/her feet and screaming "it's not fair, it's not fair, I want, I want". It was legal to vote against it......if it wasn't then Mr Osborne could just disregard it and carry on. Constitutional in the Government's view was "we have the power to pass any Bill we like, how we like, and when we like without having to spell out before the Bill is passed what exactly the details and effects of the Bill would be". In this case it was a 100 year old unwritten agreement that the House of Lords wouldn't interfere with any Financial Bill. The Opposition's [Tories, Labour, Liberals [remember them?] etc, view was that it was Welfare and was not entirely financial, and I agree with that. Let's face it, all Bill's are financially driven in some degree and if the financial argument was used it would muffle any opposition from any direction. So with regard to the outraged cry of Mr Osborne I, personally, can only say "To Hell with the constitutional agreement" that really was only a one way street and suited the Government to call a Bill one thing when, in truth, it was another.
           
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            Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2015
          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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            If you haven't experienced it, Anthony, then you wouldn't know it's definition.:dunno::coffee:
             
          • Anthony Rogers

            Anthony Rogers Guest

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            It just disgusts me that people talk about " poverty"," living wage " etc and they're earning more in one day than I get for a whole week.

            I do not believe that food banks are needed in this day and age in this country in the way they are being hyped. I know there are people who need them but I reckon it is a very small percentage/minority of those who actually use them.

            How many people are claiming they are poverty stricken and yet will have mobile phones, tablets, computers, tv's etc, and of those how many smoke, drink, use cannabis or whatever.

            I have worked and paid taxes all my life and now because I'm incapable of work I'm treated like ****.

            When you go for a job you are told the rates of pay, if it's not enough to keep you in the lifestyle you are used to/require then look for something else DON'T rely on government handouts to keep you.
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              We have people living in council houses with two new BMWs parked outside.
              Now thats what I call poverty.
               
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              • "M"

                "M" Total Gardener

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                Did your husband not get married mans tax allowance then? :scratch: :dunno:

                Child benefit and tax credits are two different things/benefits/entitlements.
                Child "benefit" was formally known as "family allowance".
                While everyone who has a child may be entitled to child benefit, not all people with children would be entitled to tax credits.
                To qualify for tax credits, my understanding is, they would not only need to have a child/children, but would also need to a) be employed and b) fall below a certain income threshold.
                 
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                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  I agree, Pete, but don't let those people make you not recognise that there are genuine low paid working families out there struggling to pay their rent, taxes, feed their kids. Social Housing [Council} availability is becoming less and less while the private renting regime seems to be getting stronger under this Government. There are a lot of genuine low paid working families out there who do need some support if they not able to get a living wage.

                  Anthony, in the early years I was made redundant 3 times with 2 years and that while I had 3 young daughters, a wife, a mortgage, and a dog to support. So believe me, I know what's it's like to struggle to feed, clothe, keep warm, and keep safe 3 daughters whilst struggling to either keep in work or try to find work. But, like you, I was treated with contempt by the "Social" and was never ever able to claim dole or the like. But it was the way the Social staff were/are trained to treat you like an "Enemy of the State".......so who's to blame for that.??
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    Yes there are, but there must be a way of weeding out those that dont need it.
                     
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                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      Not unless we have a Big Brother State, or we spend more money investigating the actual true financial circumstances of every claimant.:dunno::snork:
                       
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                      • lykewakewalker

                        lykewakewalker Apprentice Gardener

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                        @ARMANDII
                        I am not sure what you do not agree with in my post, is it that Tax Credits require an overhaul?
                        that there are families out there who are living in near poverty? or that food banks are already at full stretch?
                        Families with 4 children can jointly earn £46k and still qualify for Tax Credits, I personally believe that this is an amount far in excess of what should be the maximum and is one reason why they should be overhauled.
                        If you do not agree that there are people, even working people, living in near poverty I can assure you that there are. I am a Parish Councillor in what is a fairly affluent village but we see examples of poverty amongst working families in our community every month.
                        Again, as a Parish Council, we get requests from the MDC to assist local food banks in as many ways as we can, by publicising their requests for donations, arranging local collections of tinned goods and by trying to raise funds.
                         
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                        • Charlie996

                          Charlie996 Gardener

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                          Sadly the current younger generation think to keep churning out kids is the route to money.

                          I have no issue with help for the first two but after that the responsibility must lie with the parents not the tax payer.

                          We now live in society where wages are low. The minimum wage has become THE wage so many more become eligible for tax credits . Quite which government you blame for that I don't know.

                          The cuts will be delayed that's all. They were hoping to make the cuts before the so called minimum or living wage goes up. Now they will just Chang the timing.

                          We often say We never had these benefits which is true but we did have in most cases more and better jobs to choose from and better wages.

                          Well those of us past say 50.....
                           
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                          • shiney

                            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                            Youngster! :old:
                             
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