1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Am I morally wrong ?

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by PaulB3, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. PaulB3

    PaulB3 Gardener

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    Messages:
    80
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Gardener
    Location:
    Lincolnshire UK
    Ratings:
    +210
    An elderly lady customer of mine had died fairly recently ; living in rented accomodation she always took a personal pride in her garden and property in general .
    It has become increasingly apparent that the new tenants will have no interest in the garden whatsoever (4-dogs) .
    Am I morally wrong to consider taking some of the plants from the garden in order to preserve them from what will surely be oblivion ?
    I can then give them to other customers who would take care of them (free of charge).:dbgrtmb:

    Not wanting to be seen 'robbing the dead' , does anyone see justification in what I envisage ?
    Woukd I be classified as a ghoul??????.....:help:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Verdun

      Verdun Passionate gardener

      Joined:
      Oct 16, 2012
      Messages:
      4,666
      Gender:
      Male
      Location:
      West Cornwall
      Ratings:
      +10,193
      Morally Paul? Well it would be illegal and inappropriate I think. Who knows, the new tenants may surprise you??? :noidea:
      I understand your feelings though :). Esp if you yourself provided some of those plants. Did you?

      I would ask the new tenants if you could take a few plants. If you simply took them and were "caught in the act" it would not be a good look:sad:.
       
      • Agree Agree x 8
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

        Joined:
        Jan 9, 2005
        Messages:
        25,636
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        joinery
        Location:
        Mid Kent
        Ratings:
        +23,289
        I dont think it would be ok to take the plants.
        You were only, I presume being paid, to look after the garden, and I presume you were paid to perhaps provide the plants?

        I know it might be gut wrenching seeing the garden demise, but you need to be professional about it.:smile:
         
        • Like Like x 2
        • PaulB3

          PaulB3 Gardener

          Joined:
          Jul 21, 2017
          Messages:
          80
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Professional Gardener
          Location:
          Lincolnshire UK
          Ratings:
          +210
          Verdun
          You are probably right , and yes I did supply most of the plants .
          First opinions can be deceptive ; may introduce myself and gauge the situation .
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • PaulB3

            PaulB3 Gardener

            Joined:
            Jul 21, 2017
            Messages:
            80
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Professional Gardener
            Location:
            Lincolnshire UK
            Ratings:
            +210
            Pete
            Just seen your response ; as above to Verdun .
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • Tetters

              Tetters Gardener

              Joined:
              Apr 25, 2017
              Messages:
              2,236
              Gender:
              Female
              Location:
              Kent
              Ratings:
              +5,244
              Well, afraid I would have been ''in there'' between tenants to aquire as many cuttings as possible just to make sure.
              Good husbandry requires lots of judicious pruning. :th scifD36:
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • CarolineL

                CarolineL Super Gardener

                Joined:
                Jun 12, 2016
                Messages:
                337
                Gender:
                Female
                Occupation:
                Retired Software engineer
                Location:
                Rural Nottinghamshire
                Ratings:
                +770
                Just a question - since it is rented, doesn't that mean the plants belong to the landlord?
                 
                • Like Like x 2
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • PaulB3

                  PaulB3 Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Jul 21, 2017
                  Messages:
                  80
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Occupation:
                  Professional Gardener
                  Location:
                  Lincolnshire UK
                  Ratings:
                  +210
                  She paid for and I supplied most of the plants ; not sure how that works really .
                  I suppose the same rule would apply for interior items too :scratch:
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Mike Allen

                    Mike Allen Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Jan 4, 2014
                    Messages:
                    553
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Ratings:
                    +957
                    Morally. You are concerned about the goodness or badness of an act etc.

                    Fact. Under the Theft Act. To remove plants or property in a situation such as this. Such an action would legally constitute THEFT. Definition in brief being. Taking/ Removing what is not yours, is theft/stealing. Mitigating circumstances would inlude. If you could provide satisfactory evidence that the person you had supplied the plants to, whetherornot as a sale or business arrangement, and or. It had previously been agreed that in such an event as death etc, then some arrangement having been made for you to remove various plants.

                    The matter of ownership. Here consideration would be called in. In the case of say. A present or gift had been given to another person. Once given without conditions being agreed such as, not being liked anymore so sell it, or leaving it in a will. The Giver has no legal claim.
                    In this instance. The customer has died whilst renting a house/flat etc. It's usual for family etc to be alowed time to remove household effects and person belongings. After that period, anything left becomes the owners/landlords property. Interesting point. You deposit an article in your wheelie bin. Once that bin is place on the highway, all that the bin contains now belongs to the local council. At times council workers, 'bin men' help themselves to the odd thing. If caught and prosecuted, then they are charged with theft. Likewise, people who take shopping trollies home.

                    Finally. In this case. Paul sadly your customer has passed on. Your work is done. Legal beavers might ask. Hey mate, what are you doing here in the garden.

                    Truly I can well understand your situation. You could of course ask the owners of they'd like you to continue garden maintenance until new tenants move in. Then why not strike up a bit of business with the new tenants.

                    Paul. I wish you all the best.
                     
                    • Like Like x 2
                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                      Joined:
                      Jul 3, 2006
                      Messages:
                      39,255
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Retired - Last Century!!!
                      Location:
                      Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                      Ratings:
                      +62,984
                      Morally, definitely wrong! Practically, still wrong. simple solution:- tell the tenants you have been looking after the garden for years and ask if they still want you to do so. From what you say, it appears as if the answer will be 'no'. Then you can ask them whether they want some of the plants you have put in and, if not, can you have them. If they say 'that's OK' then, although still wrong in law (they really belong to the landlord), I would be inclined to take them (leaving the area neat and tidy).

                      The moral argument, as opposed to the legal one, is a bit more tenuous in that case. The tenants don't want them, the landlord has never had a particular interest in the individual plants and you will be giving the plants a good home and tender loving care whereas they may have very soon died.
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 2
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • Scrungee

                        Scrungee Well known for it

                        Joined:
                        Dec 5, 2010
                        Messages:
                        13,900
                        Location:
                        Central England on heavy clay soil
                        Ratings:
                        +22,448
                        Check whether plants put in the ground by a tenant are classed as fixtures and ownership passes to the landlord.
                         
                      • shiney

                        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                        Joined:
                        Jul 3, 2006
                        Messages:
                        39,255
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Retired - Last Century!!!
                        Location:
                        Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                        Ratings:
                        +62,984
                        The usual legal situation is that the tenancy agreement will state who owns what. The only way to find out is to ask the tenant if you can see their agreement or if they can look it up. In your situation the plants almost certainly belong to the landlord. Most tenancies have clauses that state the tenant can take away plants they have put into the ground, if it doesn't disrupt the structure or appearance of the garden, but this doesn't apply to the new tenant having a right to them.
                         
                      • Mike Allen

                        Mike Allen Gardener

                        Joined:
                        Jan 4, 2014
                        Messages:
                        553
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Ratings:
                        +957
                        Thanks Shiney. I imagine that the backyard garden plants are of little interest to the landlord etc. In case of more uppercrust property then the garden would no doubt feature.

                        Here our friend Paul is concerned about the future of plants he has perhaps given or sold to the late client. I can well understand this moment in time. For the genuine skilled gardener, plants become his/her family. So Mrs Mopp at 44 Whatsit Rd engages your services. Soon. Although Mrs M is paying YOU, in your eyes the garden has become YOURS. So you give it your best.
                        Now, dear old Mrs M has passed away. She was only the humble tenant. Perhaps no relatives and no Will of testament. So the landlord is now saddled with a property to let, perhaps roomfulls of furniture etc to get rid of and yes a garden.
                        Legally all the aforesaid is now owned by the landlord. So he calls in a house clearance firm. Jumpng forward. Mrs. M has been and gone. Paul's attachment to the garden has ended. YES. ENDED.
                         
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                          Joined:
                          Jan 9, 2005
                          Messages:
                          25,636
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Occupation:
                          joinery
                          Location:
                          Mid Kent
                          Ratings:
                          +23,289
                          I see the dilemma, but if it is your job you need to be able to walk away.

                          I could make/hang a door for someone, make new windows, but once fitted and paid for they no longer belong to me.
                          Same goes for plants and planting in my reasoning, once they are on someone else's land and paid for they are not yours.
                          It's pretty simple really.
                          Dont get attached, its a job.:smile:
                           
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • Agree Agree x 1
                          • PaulB3

                            PaulB3 Gardener

                            Joined:
                            Jul 21, 2017
                            Messages:
                            80
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            Occupation:
                            Professional Gardener
                            Location:
                            Lincolnshire UK
                            Ratings:
                            +210
                            Damned right Pete ; decided to forget all about them .
                            More important work and things to consider ; thanks for the advice though !!:blue thumb:
                             
                            • Like Like x 2

                            Share This Page