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Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by PeterS, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. PeterS

    PeterS Total Gardener

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    That was a rhetorical question - so please don't answer. Like any political discussion the truth is not welcome. :biggrin:

    I understand that the Brexit discussion is now turning to trade terms. We wish for no tariffs, but fear the EU will impose them on us. My thought is let them ask for tariffs of any size they want. And we will then charge the same tariffs to them in turn.

    The Office of National Statistics says that we import 25% more from the EU than they do from us. This means that our government will raise £125 in customs duty for every £100 that the UK will have to pay in EU taxes. I suggest that the government spends £100 of this £125 on paying the EU taxes on our exports. Thus our export prices will not be effected as the government and not the company will have paid the duty, however the £25 left over will be a profit to the UK government. EU exporters will suffer because they will have to pay our import duties. So the higher the tariff rates the more money the UK will make, and the more the EU exporters will suffer.

    Now I know that it means that the cost of imported goods into the UK will rise. But isn't that a good way to stimulate the British economy to make more goods.

    Governments always try to devalue their currencies to reduce imports and make exports cheaper. Surely this will do exactly the same. And we will be making a profit from the EU at the same time.

    So why not let the EU set whatever tariffs they want. They will only be damaging their exporters and economy, and making a net transfer of money to the UK.
     
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      Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII ADMINISTRATOR Staff Member

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      So long as we're out by March 2019 I'll be happy. Then they can get on dragging the 27 other countries into a Federation run by a group of faceless Bureaucrats, on a Gravy Train, who haven't even been voted in by the people of those countries.:coffee::snorky:
       
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      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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        Didn't someone already try that once?
         
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        • CanadianLori

          CanadianLori Ever Hopeful Canuck

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          We're getting beat up by Trump on trade . NAFTA was going to go down anyway. Just our stupid Prime Minister didn't pick up right away that the deal breaker is Mexico and stay out of other countries's ecological issues as well. If Trudeau Light had of listened, we could have made a quick conducive pact.
           
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          • clueless1

            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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            Us too. The 'special relationship' (that usually means America can start a war safe in the knowledge that a smaller but more specialised force will back them up on demand), hasn't proved that special recently, with Trump trying to destroy our aerospace industry.
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII ADMINISTRATOR Staff Member

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              I'm not so sure, Lori:dunno: The Trump Administration follow the "America First" mantra and Trump is trying to back out of every trade deal going. They've effectively broken off the TTIP negotiations with the EU as they couldn't break through the wall of regulations that the EU put in front of them.
              So NAFTA is now 13 years old and Trump thinks it's too much of a Two Way Street whereas, in his "America First" mentality, he wants a One Way Street agreement. The UK/USA "special relationship" is complex and differs from President to President and, obviously, with this President has no value at all. Any trade deal, after BREXIT, with the USA will be mostly in the favour of the USA and I can't see Canada being any different no matter who is the Canadian Prime Minister.
              Boeing has, over decades, trampled on by any means, legal or nearly illegal, and killed off competitors.......the latest attempt to stifle Bombardier selling aircraft in the USA with the USA Government backing them is an example.........any future trade deals with the USA will be no different.
               
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              • CanadianLori

                CanadianLori Ever Hopeful Canuck

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                @ARMANDII our stupid negotiating team wanted to also talk about Indigenous peoples treatment. We spend approximately $250,000 per year per Indian but the Chiefs keep most and leave their people in dismal living conditions. Then there is the layer of lawyers and politicians earning big bucks by stalling resolutions. It is called the "Aboriginal Industry ". We have no business trying to tell others about handling domestic issues.

                Trump was going to play nice until our useless articles insisted on talking politics instead of business.

                We already experienced Me First under Obama. People seem to have forgotten that bit.
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Regarding Brexit, I'm still convinced, more than ever now, that we will end up with the worst of both worlds, ie. not in the EU but abiding by all their rules.

                  Especially now Parliament will get to vote on the final deal, if we are out of free trade with the EU, Parliament will scupper any kind of deal, there are far too many members who are still hell bent on reversing Brexit, and are willing to crawl to the EU at the last moment and say, "We Made A Mistake, Will You Take Us Back, Pleeeesssee".:redface::frown:

                  I'm also not sure what the EU think about the Parliamentary vote on the "final" deal, if they vote it out will the EU just give us two fingers, I'm sure there is some underhand plotting and dealing going on already between some MPs etc. and EU officials.

                  Lots of talk about the divorce bill, but the way I see it is, that is money we would be paying them anyway, so cant see what all the fuss is about.
                  Atleast once we have payed it that should be the end of it, or once again, will we end up paying them to get "free" trade?

                  All the time they know that half of our Parliament is not backing Brexit the word "negotiations" doesn't enter into it.
                   
                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Peter, just wondering what that would do for prices in the UK regarding the bloke in the street, I agree we need to manufacture/ grow etc. more of our own stuff, but we have an overqualified work force that dont like getting dirty hands.
                  Education education education is good for those who can benefit from it, some would be better just getting a job.
                   
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                  • Tetters

                    Tetters Total Gardener

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                    I voted to leave the 'common market' or whatever they call it these days. Couldn`t give a heap of manure :) about any 'deep and special relationship' - just want to get a good quick divorce.



                    UK Government and Parliament

                    PetitionLeave the EU immediately
                    The Government should walk away from the Article 50 negotiations and leave the EU immediately with no deal. The EU looks set to offer us a punishment deal out of spite. Why wait another 18 months when we could leave right away and fully take back control of our country, lawmaking powers and borders?

                    More details
                    The EU looks set to offer us a punishment deal out of spite, insisting we pay tens of billions of pounds as part of a ‘settlement fee’ and continue to accept the jurisdiction of EU courts even after we’ve left. Meanwhile pro-EU MPs in Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP, along with unelected Lords, are attempting to block Brexit, the longer we remain a member the more opportunity they have to interfere. Why wait almost another 2 years when we could just leave right away?

                    Sign this petition
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                  • clueless1

                    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                    With all due respect, this bit is fair. Anything else would be very spiteful of the UK.

                    As a member of the EU, we made various funding commitments. Decisions were made in Europe based on promises made by the member states. Those decisions may have been very different if the UK had announced beforehand that we might not be willing to contribute to funding. If we then welch on our promises, we leave the others to pay our bit of committed funds. The other 27 states didn't choose for this to happen, so should not be penalised.

                    And for the record, I'm not a 'remoaner'. I had very mixed feelings and being one of what seems like the minority that thought carefully rather than just going with my gut, I saw pros and cons to both cases and still do. The nation chose brexit. That's fair enough. But I really hope the process is handled carefully and with due consideration by hopefully professional people.

                    That said, I do like that there's a petition in existence asking us to weasle out and go back on our promises. It's very existence might remind our European neighbours that as an island nation our insular attitude still means we're prepared if necessary to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and flick the two fingered solute if we don't get what we want.
                     
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                    • PeterS

                      PeterS Total Gardener

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                      Pete - totally agree. But like all things in life it comes down to incentives. There were tremendous advances in many areas during the war because there was a very high incentive level. Bankers make huge sums and rip the public off because they have given themselves a very high incentive to do so. If you pay people large sums to be on benefits and do nothing, there is no incentive for them to even get out of bed.

                      I have my own solution, but the snowflakes wouldn't like it. That is to pay no unemployment pay at all. But to guarantee everyone a job instead. If you were jobless you would still have to turn up at a job centre at 9 am and do whatever you were given to do until 5 pm. In return for which you would be paid a "wage". The "jobs" might be as simple as picking up litter. This would get people into the habit of a 9 to 5 job and they would soon look for a better paid position if they had to work for those hours anyway. And if some young people got tired getting up early and working all day, they might be less inclined to stay up all night thieving.
                       
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                        Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        Having been unemployed for a short while and on JSA I've got to say I didn't find it easy @PeterS .

                        But I do agree, the long term unemployed do need a kick up the arris.
                         
                      • clueless1

                        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                        I was with you 100% right up to this bit.

                        What a massive sweeping statement. How can we expect the youth to show respect when those old enough to know better teach them only contempt?
                         
                      • PeterS

                        PeterS Total Gardener

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                        Clueless - I never suggested that all young people steal - its clearly a small minority. However there are some people that steal. If you watch programmes like Police Interceptors, the people who steal cars are invariably young and not middle aged or retired people. And they are usually unemployed. So going to work during the day might make them like likely to steal.

                        I have inserted the word some to make it more clear.
                         
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