Can I Plant Apple Trees?

Since I got my garden 3 years ago I've wanted to plant an apple tree or two but am starting to run out of room. I know the standard suggestion would be to simply train a few into espaliers and fans but I am skeptical if this will produce a great deal of fruit in the long run. Also I have had images of having standard apple trees in my garden to add a bit of height and shade.

I have two free spaces left to plant these trees. One in my very long bed which has a few shrubs in it such as Dogwoods and a few annuals and biennials. My first question is this: Can I plant an apple tree in a border like this or would it affect the fruiting of that tree in the long run?

The second place I am thinking of planting one is in my front garden bed. Which is roughly 3.8m x 3.2m and has a few shrubs in it. It receives a bit of sunlight in the winter but more in the summer. Again could I plant an apple tree here or should I look at another tree altogether as I really want to add height to the bed and the bed is at a safe distance from my house too.

Another idea if the grow an espalier against the garage wall but some of the tree would be shaded by a Laburnum and Forsythia growing in front of it. This would be in a south facing garden though so wonder if it would receive enough afternoon light to compensate.

 

Hi JJ, Best not to plant a standard apple in the middle of an ornamental border. I had a Lord Lambourne in my S-facing border in UK and it was a real PITA! To grow good fruit, you need to be able to get to the tree easily and if the roots suffer drought / competition from other shrubs at the critical fruit-growth stage, it's bye-bye that year's crop. What with pruning, treatment for pests and diseases (chemical or biological) and harvesting, you'd be endlessly tramping over your border. Add to that the fact that apart from a couple of weeks when they're flowering, fruit trees aren't really very attractive.....You can get a decent crop off a three-tiered espalier and it's much more accessible.

 

An Espalier will produce a decent crop in a relatively small space. The rootstock used is one of the more vigorous ones (same as for a tree I think). Doesn't help with your wish for some shade though ....

If you want apples in a border (ignoring the shade request again!!) but don't want to commit the space for an espalier you could go for a step-over and use it like a mini-box-hedge at the front of the border. Personally I don't see the point of them (I'd prefer an Espalier and get lots of fruit - but then I have plenty of space, so I'm biased), but given a reasonably long border you'd get several varieties as a step-over and thus have plenty of variation / season length / etc.

Or grow a Family Tree with two or three (or more perhaps ...) varieties grafted onto the one tree (but I believe it is important to get a balance [e.g. of vigour, as well as flowering timing] between the varieties, although perhaps you can pay due attention to compensate the vigour at pruning time)

 

You're starting to convince me to get some of these again. I had a watch of a video on how to train the tree but it doesn't really give me much information on planting, aspect, what number root stock I need etc.

One place I seriously am considering to plant an espalier is next to the garage wall. So it will get some sun in the afternoon but will be shaded by a laburnum tree I've planted. Will this have enough light to help the tree grow and fruit? We are toying with the idea of having paving in front of this wall so it can be used as an area for sitting in the sun and having the espalier as a back drop on the wall but I don't know if planting a tree so close to paving would be a bad idea. The paving hasn't been built yet but it's something Dave wants. Here's a rough drawing of the area I'm talking about.

From what I remember your Espaliers are growing on bare ground and act as a sort of boundary. I seem to always see them like this and wonder if I need to find a patch of bare ground to plant them rather than at the back of the border. In other words could I grow a few espaliers at the back of a border against the fence that is also west facing? I could grow at least one facing south but would this create a solid visual barrier in the summer or something more transparent? We plan to put a pergola in soon as well. Could I grow espaliers under the pergola possibly? There wouldn't be a solid roof but some sort of rafters to cut down on the sunlight coming through. Probably some planting on the top in the long run as well.

I can remember you suggesting to me to plant a crab apple tree somewhere to help with the pollination. One of the reasons I made this thread is because I feel a need to put a tree in the front garden to give a bit of height and privacy. A standard apple tree is now off the cards because of maintenance issues but was wondering if a Crab Apple would do well here instead. Do crab apples need maintenance and would a crab apple help with pollination with all apple tree groups or just certain ones?

It's now a toss up between this and a Mountain Ash.

 

I think the reason you haven't seen many like that is people probably use nice West / South facing walls for more sun-loving fruit. I reckon they would do OK for apples though.

If the pergola has nothing growing on it that sounds fine. Could you grow something else over it? Grapes? Kiwi fruit? (Not sure on how heart-set on Apples you are though)

Don't think they need maintenance, they are just a small ornamental tree in my mind They have a longer flowering period than cultivar apples, so in general terms are likely to coincide being in flower when the Apples are. You might be better to buy two apples from the same pollination group (i.e. they will flower at the same time), but having a crab apple near by, as well, can only help. (I wonder if it is also the case that increasing the amount of flower brings in more Bees, and thus more pollination takes place anyway?)

Some info on apple varieties / pollination groups etc here:
http://www.orangepippin.com/

Some nice ones of them available. I have the standard red berry, but also white, yellow and pink

 

I love my apples and while grapes are ok I imagine apples need slightly less maintenance, protection etc and have more uses in this household.

A thought did occur to me a few days ago which was instead of having a few espaliers growing along the boundary walls I could instead grow some cordons up and over the pergola. Thus potentially clothing the pergola and having even more space to harvest more apples than just a few espaliers growing tightly along the wall. A bit like this




I was drawing up all sorts of different combinations , so I could potentially grow more than one variety. But I wondered if growing them in such a small space with branches and leaves overlaping would be bad for the plant. Also if it was possible to instead of having a curved arch like the above picture perhaps cutting the leading shoot of the maidens once they reach the height of the pergola and having one side shoot then growing across the pergola. Or perhaps just one maiden planted in one corner of the pergola and then trained into a fan shape once it reaches the top of the pergola. I'm not sure if either of these are possible to do that you could have all of the fruits coming from one side shoot or train a fan 90 degrees from the main trunk of the tree. In theory it would be easier to maintain than a standard tree as I could just get a ladder and prune the growth from under the plant.

Any recommendations on what varieties to grow. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of varieties out there. Is there some varieties that are common for people to grow? I was eying up a James Grieve when I was hoping to plant a single standard as it is both good as a cooker and desert. But I wonder if because it's dues purpose the taste may be not as good as others.

Also any recommendations on where to buy fruit tree maidens online? All the garden centres round here only seem to sell bush and standards.

Pretty stupid question but could I train a crab apple tree as an espalier as well? I imagine so but am just double checking. Then I could have the crab apple growing up the garage wall while the two (or possibly three) cordons grew on the pergola. Or would you use this space to grow even more apples or another fruit entirely? Cherries would be nice. I'm quite happy to plant just two of the same pollinating group but have read that crab apples help out wildlife too, which is one of the reasons I want to plant a Mountain Ash in the front garden.

Do you find that the cultivated varieties with the white and pink berries still attract birds? I'm a fan of Waxwings and want to attract them as they were seen around my area last year. Have you ever spotted any on your trees?

 

Cordons, as distinct from Espallier, are grown like that. Can't remember if they start life with a different rootstock, or if it is just in the pruning. Definitely possible, as are your ideas for up-and-along and up-and-fan.

If it were me I would delay a year, go to some Apple Days next Autumn (there is a national Apple Day, but various specialist nurseries open on that day and/or adjacent weekends) and only choose apples that you like the taste of. If you have some in mind already, and they check out as Tip Bearers (thus suitable for Espalier training) then go with those.

I got mine from www.ashridgetrees.co.uk (their so called maidens were feathered, so I saved a year's growth ) but I was tempted by local nurseries as they also had locally created varieties which are probably hard to find elsewhere.

I wouldn't. Wall space too precious for things that would benefit most from a wall. But I'm sure it would work. Dunno if they would put on enough "canopy" on a wall to make much of a habitat for birds; they'll nest anywhere, of course, but a full blown tree would provide more cover I expect?

Yes Cherries are good against a wall, I think, as it is easy to form some connectors so that you can drape a net from the "gutter" above and keep the birds off when the fruit ripens. Harder in the open.

 

I hate to bump an old thread but have now had another idea about growing trained fruit trees in another part of my garden.

I've had this picket fencing in my garden dividing the veg patch from the rest of the garden and now want to use something a bit more permanent and productive. This is the area I refer to. I don't want to remove the whole fencing just the bit in between the ladder arch and the other entrance and the far end.



We are probably talking about 10ft in length and this runs from north to south. I have a few things to work out like what type of training to go for that will give a good return in a few years time. My first thought was an espallier but then I thought I would only really be having one variety at the end of the day. My next thought was cordons but then I though these would have to be at an angle and so would take up a bit of space. Aesthetically I'm hoping for something that will knit together to form a very lose hedge but am not sure if cordons will do this or not.

I'm also assuming that whatever training method I go for I will need to wait until the winter to buy th whips to plant them?

I still want to grow apple cordons up my pergola (haven't built it yet) but thought perhaps I could grow some more fruit elsewhere and buy a bunch of whips in one shot to save a bit of money.

 

I would. Mine (Autumn planted) got away so well that if I had to do it again I wouldn't consider planting container-grown mid-season for fear that they would stall

Having said that, my "Maiden whips" were huge - that might be a benefit of buying "first in line" in the Autumn, I reckon I got 2-year-olds, so they already had branches and I therefore topped them for 2nd tier, rather than the more traditional prune-at-1st-tier.

There are some espallier (I presume, haven't looked closely) apples at East Ruston Old Vicarage which are combined with an arch. I had thought that the arch was apples too, but looking at my photos they are roses. I didn't take any photos specifically, so these are general shots but you may be able to piece them together to form an idea of what it looks like.

Not sure its the effect you are looking for, but might give some food for thought.










If you only have room for one or two apple varieties, rather than trying to squeeze more varieties in how about a fancy training system - like one of the variations-on-a-theme of a double cordon


or this:


other patterns here:
http://blog.theenduringgardener.com/garden-maintenance/prune-like-a-pro/
and here:
http://herbidacious.wordpress.com/the-produce/trained-fruit-form-index/
and here:
http://www.colonialsense.com/How-To_Guides/Outdoors/Espalier_Trees/Modern_Instructions.php

 

These are my apples, planted Autumn 2012, photos Sep 2013 and Jul 2014. Sorry, cropped from larger images, but most of them are already up to the top wire


Sep 2013


Jul 2014

 

Found another, face-on


Jul 2014

So if you get some good (decent sized ), bare root plants then it will only 3 years or so to get them to a decent size.