Can softwood cuttings of ivy grow on vertical walls with 1" clay/cow manure plaster?

Hi,

Thanks for looking at my thread.

Can softwood cuttings of ivy grow on vertical walls when pressed into 1" thick clay/cow manure plaster?

Is it impossible or do I need a thicker plaster ?

If this is possible it would go on the outside of a planned strawbale house (epdm sheet under plaster).

Thanks
Mike

 

0) Hi Mike, and welcome to Gardeners Corner.
In my expererience Ivy can grow on anything.
Just be sure you want it before you put it there.
Getting rid of it can be another matter.

 

You'll need to start it with its roots in the ground, but it will certainly grow up the walls.

 

Hi Mike & welcome to Gardeners Corner.

I'm assuming you want the ivy as extra weather protection for your strawbale project. That will be fine as long as, like Dave says, its roots are in the ground.

If it ever gets severed from the ground then the leaves will adapt themselves to become roots & force its way into the plaster in search of nutrients & water. This is when ivy becomes destructive to masonry.

Otherwise, its fine.

 

:yez: We live in an old building which is built with 'cob'....i.e.basically the stuff you have on your wall....and YES anything will grow in it if it is kept moist & the medium has chance to 'mature' a bit. We have ferns seeded themselves in it, numerous alpine style wild plants, 3/4 types of ivy, helixine, foxgloves....none of which we purposely planted! Good luckwith your ivy. :gnthb:

 

Is it good for things to be growing in the wall? We don't grow "clingers" up walls in case their clingers damage the fabric of the wall, we only grow climbers on vine-eyes + wires s that the plants are support an inch or two clear of the wall itself.

But maybe I am over cautious?

 

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies, such a friendly forum !

"I'm assuming you want the ivy as extra weather protection for your strawbale project. That will be fine as long as, like Dave says, its roots are in the ground.

If it ever gets severed from the ground then the leaves will adapt themselves to become roots & force its way into the plaster in search of nutrients & water. This is when ivy becomes destructive to masonry."

Great ! I want the leaves to adapt themselves to become roots & force their way into the plaster in search of nutrients & water, they will shortly find the EPDM, which is reported to even stop willow tree roots.

Regarding willow tree roots, apparently the EPDM is stretched for a while, than the roots decide it is easier to change direction, i'm not sure it would stop willow tree roots if the roots had no where else to go but through EPDM.

The EPDM is the only weatherproofing I need, I want the ivy for two reasons, to look great, and for the roots to form a strong net to hold the clay/cow manure plaster onto the walls, so the all plaster doesn't get washed off in heavy rain.

How quickly would the leaves turn into roots ? After they have turned into roots would the Ivy lose it's leafy appearance ? I'm sure more leaves would grow quickly though, maybe two weeks to one month ?

My plan is to chop a large amount of Ivy into hundreds / thousands of 6-8 inch pieces, and simply press them into the plaster (covering the entire building apart from windows/doors) with the leaves poking out, keep it covered and damp for a while (in the summer) until the roots develope and can hold the plaster onto the EPDM.

So actually you are right Ziggy, it is a form of weatherproofing for the plaster, but not the bales, i'll do an experiment on a single bale (with a little pitched roof) to see how well this technique keeps water away from the bales, I doubt it will work well enough though, bad news if the outside of the bales stays wet too long. For the test to be practical it will have to last for at least two years, so i'll go ahad with the EPDM any way, it's 100% recyclable, so a good green product.

I would contorl the ivy by cutting any roots which start to enter the ground, the ivy pieces need to get their nutrients from the cow dung in the plaster, if the ivy is looking a little malnutritioned i'll spray it with some nutrients in a liquid, possibly one part urine to 9 parts water, though I will definately need to do a patch (smell) test first !

I don't mind if the pieces don't grow much or at all, as I know they grow in relation to their roots, it may even be better that way.

Thanks again for your help !
Mike

 

Thats an interesting experiment Mike. I can see where you're coming from.

Personally i'd lime plaster straight onto the bales, as the lime plaster is breathable, it lets moisture out, but you probably already know that.

Like Kirsten said, i'd grow a climber up a frame rather than let it attach itself to the plaster. That way you could detach the plant to re limewash when needed. But I get the impression that you are trying to copy the strangler fig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangler_fig

The ivy will still produce plenty of leaves once rooted in the wall, but the growth habit tends to be globular rather than a regular covering, so you might want to consider another climber, like a virginia creeper.

 

Just my thoughts on ivy, firstly the leaves do not adapt themselves to become roots, it grows roots that allow the plant to climb, these roots are not quite the same as the real roots which grow in the ground.

I'vy tends to grow on other plants, trees mainly, and it only uses them for support.

It can be very destructive on masonry that is not sound, so planting it into a a clay cow manure mix seems a bit strange to me, but I have no knowledge of the odd building practices that are now happening.

I also know that when you plant it, it takes about ten years to get going, and then after that point it becomes an annual problem of cutting it back.

 

Thanks again for the replies:

"Personally i'd lime plaster straight onto the bales, as the lime plaster is breathable, it lets moisture out, but you probably already know that."

You're right, breathability is definately very important, the bales will breath to the inside through (just) earthen plaster, as there will be constant ventilation from an air heat exchange, breathability to the inside is far more important with strawbale in my opinion, as you really don't want the outside of the bales to get wet at all, even if they can breath the moisture out through lime plaster, some times it may not be quick enough, so mold may form over a period of years.

If the moisture is breathing from the inside through the bales to the outside it's very dangerous, it means you don't have adequate ventilation on the inside, the leangth of time it would take to travel through the bales completely is very likely enough time to start mold, and if it is happening frequntly, disaster.

Most strawbale building have large roof overhangs to keep the water off the walls, so lime is fine, I won't have any overhangs as i'll be relying on over EPDM over the bales (which are sitting on sloping bamboo poles) for the roof (single story).

Virginea Creeper is beautifull, and is exactly the asthetic i'm looking for, dense leafy coverage, though as i'm still going for the pressing ivy cuttings into the clay/manure plaster idea, I think i'll stick with Ivy for it's rooting ability, perhaps i'll buy some Virginia Creeper plants if some of the leaves of the Ivy die leaving bald patches, or even just to have super dense coverage.

Hi Pete,

"It can be very destructive on masonry that is not sound, so planting it into a a clay cow manure mix seems a bit strange to me, but I have no knowledge of the odd building practices that are now happening."

The plaster will be over EPDM, which the roots can't hurt, the point of the plaster is just to sustain the Ivy, and the point of the Ivy is to (as well as look good) protect the plaster by forming a root matrix, so it can't get washed off in the rain.

"Just my thoughts on ivy, firstly the leaves do not adapt themselves to become roots, it grows roots that allow the plant to climb, these roots are not quite the same as the real roots which grow in the ground."

Ok thanks, the roots it grows to allow it to climb, do you know if they can suck up moisture / nutrients ? If so can they sustain small cuttings ? Which can later grow small proper roots in the clay / manure plaster ?

Cheers !
Mike

 

Hi Marley,

I'm confident ivy won't be destructive to epdm (not masonry).

If it can work, it would be the fastest, cheapest and easiest method of covering an entire house in attractive organic matter.

Also it's experimental, which is fun.

Best Regards,
Mike

 

Posted by Mike
"Ok thanks, the roots it grows to allow it to climb, do you know if they can suck up moisture / nutrients ? If so can they sustain small cuttings ? Which can later grow small proper roots in the clay / manure plaster ?"

If you keep the wall constantly wet you might get it to grow directly on the wall, but I doubt it would survive a summer without ground roots.
Only thing that I can think of that is capable of growing directly on walls is moss, plus a few of the types of plant that are normally seen growing on dry stone walls, sedums etc, the odd fern maybe.

I doubt you would get the cover you are trying to create without ground roots on a climber.

Virginia creeper is deciduous by the way so not much in winter.

BTW Mike where are you?

 

Ok Pete it will be an interesting experiment, it will be mid to late summer when the ivy cuttings are pressed into the plaster, hopefully they'll last the remainder of that summer and the rest of the year, than we'll see how long it survives.

I'll add a trough or large pots going around the building with some mature virginia creeper plants growing on frames, so that when/if the ivy does die off, it can take over, late summer I can always press more Ivy into the plaster to repair bald patches, easy to get jobs removing Ivy

If any one has suggestions of other plants for this wall covering preject, please feel free to contribute them.

Thanks again !
Mike