Do you heat during the winter?

Hi greenhouse people,
Ive had a greenhouse for more years than i care to remember and ive seen the cost of heating these money suckers go up & up & up all due to rising cost of anything you want to use to heat the greenhouse,

And so ive read about how the victorians heated their's after all the average working person didnt even have electric so what did they use!
How did they cope!
I was reading about both the old victorian ways and some modern ways put together to help keep the cost down,

Now your talking about keeping the greenhouse frost free and whats called a warm greenhouse and "NOT" a hot house here.

The use of bubble wrap is well known to most greenhouse owners, but what your house is sitting on can make a big difference ie if your on pure earth then the under ground temperature is going to effect what your greenhouse inner temp will be,
Ie ive a concrete floor in mine and when i layed the concrete i also used thermal blocks to keep the floor from freezing,
so its easier to control the heat in the greenhouse from whats under ground,

The Victorians used straw bales around the complete greenhouse walls (two bales high, and pulled one in the door way so the door closed and this complete greenhouse area was now lined with straw, the actual floor itself was covered with a good layer of straw to help with the cold coming from under ground.

The victorians then cut the shapes of clay pots so these pots could be placed inside these cut out area's of the straw bales
and seeds "tomatoe etc " we're then sown along with broad bean, peas, etc.
The straw not only acted as a heat form but the potted pots in the straw bales had extra heat from being so close to the inner bales, & clay will heat up and retain the heat,
a hand full of straw would be placed over the young plants to act like the way we use fleece now over night and removed during daylight hours so the plants could get light for growth.

The more modern way today is to use the straw as our victorian gardeners did but to also use bubble wrap for the higher sections of the greenhouse,

As with any gardening "No waste" is the thing and this straw after its been used and the weather is safer from freezing conditions is used on the compost heap to help speed the heat & rotting up.
COST!
Well when you think of the cost of electric/fuel for heaters etc etc and the old dreaded electric cuts in the middle of the night thing, (all inside the greenhouse dies due to freezing)
Would straw be worth thinking about???

 

I use straw for my ducks (and a bale for the chooks to play with) and I'm quite astonished at how varied the price can be.

Fortunately, a colleague of Mr Mum's has a contact where we pay just £2 per bale (which is exceptionally good!). So, straw would be worth thinking about at that price (plus it would last all the winter long and recycled into the compost heap or as mulch); however, the only "concern" would be ... vermin. It would make a fantastic winter nesting box for them.

I don't have a greenhouse to heat, but that is an interesting read

 

£2! I was asked £35 for a bale!

 

Oh dear, FB .... maybe not so much "God's Own Garden" after all?

Seriously: that is one heck of a price!!! (and Mr Mum's colleague does the delivery - in return for some fresh eggs )

 

Interesting idea - like a straw bale house. You'd need a lot of bales, I would reckon maybe 12 per layer even on my tiny greenhouse and a lot of room all around it.
The straw packing method would be great for individual potted plants like brugs. It could be composted when spring came.

I was fascinated by some old allotments in Sheffield where each one had a brick shed with a little stove built in, presumably the warm air fed into a glass structure, mostly long gone. A great place for getting away from 'im indoors.

I have only ever attempted to keep the greenhouse frost free, that was difficult enough. I think the best option for seriously growing semi-tropicals and tropicals is a good conservatory with radiators from the house system.

 

Wouldn't all the heat-processes have taken place by then?

To keep frost from a small greenhouse, a large vat of water does the trick by absorbing the heat through the day and releasing it through the night.

There's also a 'green' heat system I've seen where you have some heat-absorbent material (such as glass or stones) in a large container and you have a forced-air pipe going into the base of that filled container. The top of the forced-air pipe is set high so that as heat rises, the fan 'extracts' the heat from the top of the greenhouse and pushes it into the filled-container. This heats up the contents of the container and acts as a heat-store. When the temps are reversed (at night), the container is warmer and so the same fan pushes heat out of the warmer container and out into the colder greenhouse. It's really very simple and I'm tempted to do it. What has put me off is the chap who showed this on tv has not given any clues as to how much difference it actually makes in practice. Over this year, I might have a spare, mad weekend to do the project for my more tender plants.

 

Dick Strawbridge I think?

Problem, as I perceive it, with these type of systems is that in the depths of Winter there is not enough "heat input", even if stored, to counteract the cold that we get.

My solar panels generate less than 10% of the energy in mid Winter that they do in mid Summer. Barely enough for them to be hooked up!

If we get a sunny day and then a cold night that's often fine, but if we then get grey days and bitter winds from the Russian Bear, then there would not be enough heat stored.

Worth it for Spring though, when all you are trying to do is to reduce the minimum overnight temperature by a few degrees, and for only a few hours - the nights are shorter, and it takes until 4am or so for the temperature to fall to dangerous levels even in a plain-Jane glasshouse, so not long to have to provide a little "top up" heat from the store.

Still need decent insulation ... stored heat is soon wasted in a draughty building ... and a shelter-belt (hedge, solid fence, lee of the house etc.) to keep the wind off the greenhouse.

I would still want emergency heating for the occasional cold night that could wipe out all the tender plants.

 

Yes, it's Dick Strawbridge.

You'd be right about the temps diff not being enough during the depths of winter, but many plants need that chill factor for the following years growth so it's not something that would affect me unduly. On such days the fan could be turned off and the energy used instead for a heater of some sort thus maintaining some sort of carbon-neutral situation?

If I'm correct the worst chill in a g/h is around the base perimeter? You could also have a smaller cloche/plastic container in which to further trap the heat for tender plants - apparently a tea-light candle is all that's needed - not bad for just a few pence per night.

 

Yes, I do that in spring - a simple flimsy "tunnel" or a "4-shelf blow-away" type greenhouse inside my [unheated] conservatory, with some minimal heat inside that.

Yeah, I've seen that too and its tosh of course ... the maths depends on the volume to be heated, the U-value of the plastic, and the difference in temperature between the inside of your "cloche" and the air outside it. During a long cold spell the air in the greenhouse will fall to match the outside, and the air inside the cloche likewise. A tea-light isn't going to make much difference then ... sadly ... otherwise we could all heat our houses with tea-lights!

But, in Spring with short nights and no really Arctic prolonged cold spells, its enough. I put a grow-lamp in mine and run the lamp at night, the heat from the lamp is enough to keep the tunnel toasty warm, and the plants get extra light to help them grow.

 

I've given up - you obviously know everything.

 

I used straw last winter in the greenhouse,i packed it under and around my young callistemons,worked a treat i was wanting to do the whole floor but somebody suggested that it might attract mice

 

I edited it, before you replied, so as to not to imply that you were wrong, but that the blanket statement that a Tea-light is sufficient is wrong. A tea-light cannot provide enough heat to combat serious cold.

The other problem I perceive with that type of heat (including the normal type of Paraffin heaters used in greenhouses) is that there is no thermostat, so you have to light them on nights you think will be cold - thus inevitably they are lit unnecessarily on some nights, and worst case they are not lit on a cold night and the plants snuff it.

 

I hadn't specified the volume of the cloche. A tea-light inside a crock-flower-pot is a trick used by old tradesmen to fully heat up a room when they were doing 2nd fix to a house such a plastering etc. I've done it myself and it works.

I've just re-read your comment about you editing before I replied - I'm now ignoring you so now please leave me alone.