Faster Than light - A Measurement Error?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by shiney, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    For any of you that were interested in the CERN claim last year of something travelling faster than light, there was, apparently, a mistake. Here's an article by Michio Kaku.


    No, You Still Can't Go Faster Than Light


    A challenge to Einstein and a measurement error.


    By Michio Kaku


    The case against Einstein is crumbling. A series of new experiment results flatly contradict the sensational announcement last year that something could—and indeed had—traveled faster than light. Physicists around the world are, for reasons I'll explain, breathing a sigh of relief.

    Last September a group of physicists fired a beam of subatomic particles called neutrinos from the CERN particle accelerator, near Geneva, to Italy. They were left gasping for breath when the neutrinos apparently outraced a beam of light by a distance of 60 feet over a distance of 454 miles, violating Einstein's famous dictum that nothing can travel faster than light.

    Headlines blared that Einstein, an iconic figure in science for a century, was finally proven wrong. The world of physics was thrown into turmoil because the bedrock of modern physics would disintegrate if that were true. My research is in string theory, for example, which extends Einstein's theory of relativity. So if his theory is wrong, my own life's work would go out the window as well.

    The first cracks in this claim began to emerge last month, with clear signs that the experimental apparatus at CERN was miscalibrated. In a race, everything depends crucially on measuring two things: knowing the length of the track, and synchronizing two watches at the starting point and finish line. Apparently, there were crucial errors in both measurements.

    First, the clocks in Switzerland and Italy were synchronized by comparing them to a third clock, a carefully calibrated oscillator. Now it appears that the oscillator itself may have been miscalibrated, so the two clocks were not beating in step.

    Second, the distance between Switzerland and Italy has to be known to incredible precision for the experiment to be accurate. The only device capable of doing this is the global positioning system. But apparently the fiber optic cable that links the GPS satellite to a master clock may have been loose, which could have introduced errors in measurement. These two errors could easily have increased the speed of neutrinos by 20 parts per million, thereby explaining the discrepancy.

    But the floodgates finally burst open last week when a second group of physicists announced that they redid the entire experiment and found that Einstein was correct all along: Their neutrinos traveled at precisely the speed of light, not faster or slower.

    What makes this second announcement so convincing is that they used much of the same apparatus as the previous group. They used the same particle accelerator at CERN, fired a beam of neutrinos over the same path, and used the same destination, a laboratory in Gran Sasso near Rome. The crucial difference between these two groups was the equipment used to measure the speed of the neutrinos. This gives enormous weight to the idea that the first group did not properly calibrate their instruments.

    Last week the director for research at CERN, Sergio Bertolucci, issued a diplomatically worded statement that read, "The evidence is beginning to point towards the [earlier] result being an artifact of the measurement." Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia, a spokesman for the second group, was more blunt when he said, "We cannot be both right. One of us is wrong. I know who is right. We are right."

    Since there is so much at stake, in the coming months more experiments will be done to verify this new result. But in the minds of most physicists the issue is now settled—Einstein's theory remains undefeated.

    Will there be more spectacular errors in the future? Of course. Experiments like this are fiendishly difficult to perform, with scientists pushing the boundaries of particle physics and high-tech measurements.

    This is not the first time that tiny flaws have cascaded into horrendous errors. In 1990, for example, NASA launched the Hubble Space Telescope to great fanfare. So it was a colossal disappointment when the telescope only captured blurry, useless images. Later, it was discovered that the device that ground the mirrors was miscalibrated by a mere 1.3 millimeters. So this billion-dollar telescope was reduced to an orbiting piece of space junk. It became the laughing stock of the scientific world, until a second multimillion-dollar mission successfully put corrective glasses in front of the telescope to correct the error.

    In 1999, the $125 million Mars Climate Orbiter was a tremendous failure, disintegrating as it hit the atmosphere of Mars. A careful investigation showed that the mission was a total washout because scientists did not properly convert the metric system—i.e., changing meters into feet—which is something that even schoolchildren can do.

    Similarly, in 1979 the billion dollar Three Mile Island nuclear power plant partially melted down because a simple valve got stuck open and leaked millions of gallons of radioactive cooling water, causing the superhot core to melt. Thus, a defective part costing just a few dollars derailed a multibillion-dollar industry for three decades.

    Unfortunately, in our increasingly technological world we can expect more sensational errors like the one that, however briefly, challenged the foundation of modern science. How does one limit such costly mistakes? Ultimately, the burden of responsibility falls on the scientists and engineers to be more meticulous than ever before making grand claims like they have broken the light barrier.

    As scientists continue to examine subatomic particles—the very building blocks of the universe—we would do well to remember the words of the great astrophysicist Carl Sagan, who said time and again, "Remarkable claims require remarkable proof."

    Mr. Kaku, a professor of theoretical physics at CUNY, is author of "Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives by 2100" (Doubleday, 2011).
     
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    • Kandy

      Kandy Will be glad to see the sun again soon.....

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      Shiney,Can you write it out again in a language us Blondes can understand?:snork:
       
    • Phil A

      Phil A Guest

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      Bang go all the Neutrino jokes then:sad:
       
    • PeterS

      PeterS Total Gardener

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      Yes you can Shiney - I can bike faster than the speed of light - downhill. :rolleyespink:
      http://www.blurtit.com/q461853.html
       
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      • Phil A

        Phil A Guest

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        Two Neutrinos step out of a bar and get run over by a bicycle.
         
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        • Lolimac

          Lolimac Guest

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          And us Red heads:biggrin:
           
        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          Does that mean that the light at the end of tunnel will be later than we thought:scratch::dunno::snork:
           
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          • Dopey

            Dopey Heathrow Nr Outer Mongolia (sunny south)

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            Light travels faster than sound!
            Which is why some people look bright until they open their mouths.


            I know a dirty Neutrinos joke, but its not for here
             
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            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              The truth is its a conspiracy cover-up.

              In fact, neutrinos do travel faster than light, and since that discovery, much research happened into it. Back in 2012 scientists had made such a mess of reality that the world's financial centres almost collapsed completely, and all the world's money vanished into a quantum singularity that had opened way back in 2010 and had gradually expanded, sucking in reality until way back in 2012 when entire nations lost so much of their reality that they almost ceased to exist entirely. By 2033 scientists knew it was partly all their fault, but the politicians that had sponsored them, mistakenly believing that the singularity would in fact produce more money by having less reality (money is inversely proportional to reality after all), had by then put in place too many unreal systems such that the damage was irreparable within their timeline. Therefore drastic action was required. By 2057 they had worked out how to open a singularity wide enough to fit a person through. Moreover, they'd worked out how to control the flow of unreality. Of course they couldn't just send someone back, they had to send data too, and it had to be easily covered up by using things that would blend in back in the early part of the 21st century.

              They had worked out the technical details, but were a bit stuck with their planning. They hired teams of researchers to learn about the interests of ordinary folk of the early 21st century. Some of their IT geeks hacked a popular auction site of the day and discovered that someone had searched for a time travelling helicopter. From that point on they knew they had their cover. They still needed to work out the timing. That turned out to be easier than they'd expected. To minimise the damage to the timeline they had to make the adjustments after the initial announcements of faster than light neutrinos, but as soon as possible after. Fortunately their intelligence led them to a popular forum where they could see what was interesting to people of the day. They found a discussion about the vernal equinox and found that the mood among the people was generally positive around early spring of that year. This was a stroke of luck, so travelling under cover disguised as a perfectly ordinary police helicopter, they zapped their way through their singularity and issued an announcement that the earlier discovery was wrong, thus sowing the seeds to close the original unreality singularity and erase all traces of that quantum blunder.

              It worked. Intelligence kept monitoring the timeline, and they found that by June 2012 nobody could even remember any of it. Except for a minority of nutters on sites of no credible significance.
               
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              • Dopey

                Dopey Heathrow Nr Outer Mongolia (sunny south)

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                Tbh its easily done... my watch was 3 mins slow, and I missed the #73 bus one day

                And all that money thing, that's the Greeks ant it??
                 
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                • Axl

                  Axl Gardener

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                  I'm getting deja-vu reading this thread. Every time I read the last post the first one pops back up again :th scifD36:
                   
                • Phil A

                  Phil A Guest

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                  :lunapic 130165696578242 5::lunapic 130165696578242 5::lunapic 130165696578242 5:I was going to mention the Time Travelling Helicopters but saw that you'd got there first, which means e bay must have notified you of one up for sale before they told me, which means you got it first and came back and took out my notification before I read it:th scifD36:
                   
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                  • Dopey

                    Dopey Heathrow Nr Outer Mongolia (sunny south)

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                    WATCH OUT.... oh no its OK, that's meant for tomorrow :loll:
                     
                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    The time paradox (that's two doctors, I think :heehee:) went into a causitive loop in 1953 when Ray bradbury wrote the book 'Fahrenheit 451' thus creating a parallel universe where The Great Ipod In The Sky :love30: (The GIITS) took over all human thought. The Mark 1 version being known as 'The Old GITS'.
                     
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