Furious , anybody any advice other than a stiff drink?

I posted on here about having problems with a blocked burn and submerged bulbs/shrubs etc a week or so ago.
The situation is now worse as we have had a spell of wet weather and the flooding of part of my garden is now considerably worse.
I contacted our council 3 weeks ago and apart from a lot of head scratching nothing has happened.
I spoke with the council on Friday and because of overhead power lines....a good 100 ft away (sigh) and a gas pipe which again is about 100 ft away the council are telling me they now need to get the ok from the power companies to do anything (health and safety gone mad) and need to close our road (maybe fair enough but nobody HAS to pass where the flood is, there is a way of avoiding it).Estimated time to do anything " might be January if you're lucky".
I am definitely going to loose about 2000 Snowdrops, same number approx of Daffs, likely to also loose 2 Sorbus Discolour and numerous herbaceous plants. I feel that I should have some comeback from the council as they could easily have sorted the problem with a couple of shovel wielding blokes and a pump to divert the water. I'm now very tempted to get a pickaxe and dig up the road above where the blockage is. Anybody got any idea if I do have a case against the council for at least the value of my plants? forget about all the hard work that took place with planting etc!
As you might gather I'm really angry about this situation and prepared for a fight. The road I may say until we had heavy rain 2 night ago was completely covered in thick ice which was oblivious to the gritter. I also have bumped my car due to the road so not pleased about that either. Hope a "legal eagle" might give me some advice. Thanks and off for that stiff drink.

 

Just let me see if I understand the facts correctly. Is all of this right:

* You own or house
* The council is responsible for the drain that is blocked near your home
* The blocked drain near your home is what's causing damage to your property
* The council are well aware of this issue and have been for some time now (because you told them).
* The council is doing nothing about it.

Is that about right?

 

Sorry, can't advise on the legalities.

But is there no way you can dig out some of the plants and keep them in trays or something until the problem is sorted??

 

How do you know you're going to lose all these plants? Flooding during the growing season would be more damaging, but at this time of year it shouldn't do so much damage (unless they're getting physically washed away etc.). Snowdrops for instance naturally grow in damp woodland near rivers, and should be pretty tolerant of winter flooding. Probably the daffodils would be fine as well. Most trees should also cope with a bit of winter flooding, except perhaps if they're newly planted.

 

Thanks Sirius< I don't have the heart to start sploshing about in about 9 inches of water to lift 1000s of bulbs and can't move the trees. Will attempt to try and rescue the Hostas and Anemones but it's going to make a right mess. I'd like to think KingEdward that my plants/bulbs will be ok but it's the fact that they have now been CONTINUALLY submerged for 3 weeks that gives me little hope. None of the things are pond plants!

 

Silu, is it worth taking advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureau, they might be able to tell you where you stand with this.

 

If it was me, first think I'd do is write a letter to the council, stating that I'd made them aware of the problem with the drain on 24th Nov 2012? and since then there contractors had been out to have a look at the problem on 2 occasions, but appeared to have taken no action.

In the letter I'd be sure to list all the dates of all communications and events as accurately as possible.

If possible, I would get an estimate from a professional gardener for the cost of restoring the garden to its original state. Get the cost for both labour and materials (plants I guess), and go for the most expensive one you can find. In the letter to the council, I would also mention clearly that this is the estimate cost to put the damage right, and that I was taking (not seeking) legal advice with a view to recovering that cost from the council.

At this point, the letter would be the first legal threat. Don't bother to disguise it or beat about the bush, tell them straight. The structure of the letter would be something like this:

Without prejudice. This is a little legal tip I picked up when I worked alongside our legal team in a previous job. You put that on the top of your correspondence and it has two effects. 1) It tells the reader that maybe you mean it and 2) If the dispute goes to court, and your letter is a piece of evidence, it says that this piece of paper is not the be all and end all of the situation, ie there may be more. This is important because if you miss a detail in your letter and later try to add it into the dispute, nobody can wave your original letter and say that you're making it up as you go along so to speak.

So, without writing the letter in full, it might go something like this:

Without prejudice

Usual addresses section

Re: Damage to property caused by failed drain on neighbouring land

Dear sir

It is with regret that I have been left with no alternative but to take legal advice with regards to recovering the costs of repair to my property following damage that I believe was caused by the council's failing.

On 24th November 2012, I contacted the council to advise that a drain outside my property was blocked, and consequently water that would normally be carried away by the drain has caused extensive damage to my property.

I have sought the opinion of a professional horticulturist who advised me that although the impact would have been almost immediate, the extent of the damage was largely dependent on the length of time the problem persists without rectification. To that end, I have also contacted the council regarding the issue on a number of dates subsequent to the initial report. Below is a summary of events in relation to this matter.

30th Nov 2012??? I contacted the council by phone/letter/in person. Such and such was discussed and agreed.

1st Dec 2012??? Workmen turned up and as far as I can see did ?????

5th Dec 2012??? So on and so forth.

Despite my numerous attempts to reach and speedy and amicable solution with the council, I feel that the council has not made a genuine effort to resolve the matter, and therefore I am left with no alternative but to consult with a solicitor with a view to recovering the cost of repairing the damage to my property, which so far has been estimated as follows:

* Landscaping??? £xxxxx
* Replacement planting??? £xxxxx
* Tea and bacon butties??? £xxx

Although costly damage has already been done, at this stage I will consider the matter resolved if the council takes action to repair the failed drain, enabling my land to drain, within 7 days of the date of this letter.

Please be advised that if no satisfactory conclusion is reached within 7 days of the date of this letter

<If the cost is going to be less than about £5000>
as advised by my solicitor, I will register the case with the small claims court, using the government's MoneyClaim.gov.uk portal.

<If its more than about £5k>
I will ask my solicitor to go ahead with proceedings to recover the cost of repair to my property in court.

<in either case>

Please be advised that in addition to the cost of repair for the damage already done, I will also be seeking to recover all my legal costs, as well as any additional or subsequent damages in relation to this case.

Yours sincerely

 

WOW not so clueless!!!!!. I don't have exact dates and times that workmen were out but can give a pretty accurate record. I'll be on the blower to the council 1st thing tomorrow morning to find out EXACTLY who I should send this letter or version of to. We pay huge rates and get VERY little for them, no street lighting, road sweepers to name but 2 off the top of my head and haven't had our bucket collected for over 2 weeks...why? because of the state of our road!!!!
You are an absolute star and I can't thank you enough. Whether I get anywhere or not at least now I feel I can do SOMETHING to at least try to get the ball rolling and just maybe have some recourse. The costs to replace what's almost certain to have been killed could run into a pretty penny and I know how long it took me to plant the Daffs and Snowdrops...a long time, at contractors rates yikes! Oh yes forgot to mention that the overflow to our septic tank runs into the burn....nice!

 

I should have mentioned, at this stage, there is no need to actually involve a solicitor. Just don't tell the council that. There is always an element of bluff, and the council will know this too. They will have a whole book full of stock responses ready to fob you off. Don't accept it.

I fully expect them to respond by saying that they have acted within defined guidelines and on target etc.

The important thing is not to accept their attempts to dismiss you, but at the same time don't engage them on it because they will win on experience if you do. If you speak to them and they come out with their fob off attempts, answer simply that you have noted their responses in your record of events, and will pass the information on to your solicitor at your next meeting.

Above all, never, ever get angry. When a dispute turns into an angry exchange, the winner is usually the one that listens but doesn't shout back. All communication from this point on should be cold and clinically precise, but civil.

The best possible outcome is for the council to decide it is probably going to be cheaper and less hassle for them to just do the job, but of it ends up in court, you need for them not to have had the chance to say that you were anything other than respectful, rational, approachable and reasonable.

 

Duly noted I will be polite and my ample repertoire of swear words will not be used only thought!I hope nobody has taken offence at me using this forum to assist me as I suppose strictly speaking this isn't about gardening altho my garden is the "victim" of our councils total lack of urgency in this matter which is also affecting the safety of anybody using the road.Again thank you very much and I will update if any progress/ action, fingers crossed.

 

It is really. The thread is about your garden, and doesn't really fit into any of the more topic specific subforums, some it is general gardening discussion. Its where I'd have put the thread if I'd been in your situation. Don't be worried about asking. We're all buddies here.

 

The only caviat I would add to Clueless's guidance is that each time I have dealings with a Council department I usually use email and cc to the Mayors Office and the head of the Labour group (who are the opposition to the Mayor).
The Mayors office ALWAYS give an automated response, which legitimises the timeline and the target department are aware of the involvement of the Mayors office by virtue of the distribution list on the header of the email.
The opposition group are purely to be used if no action is taken - they like to show the Mayors office in a bad light.
Emails are a wonderful thing - and so easy to track, both messages and responses.

 

That sounds like excellent advice gcc. I wish I'd thought of that last time I had a fall out with the council.

Last time I fell out with the council, I'm ashamed to admit I broke my own rule of remaining civil. I was told, 'we have acted in accordance with guidelines set by central government, and there is no higher authority in the UK than central government'. To which I replied (calmly), 'central government is the elected representative body of the citizens of the UK, I am a citizen of the UK and therefore I am their boss, and by extension, that makes me your boss'.

In that particular case though, the dispute was trivial by comparison to Silu's. I wouldn't have been so petty if there was anything substantial at stake. I've had several fall-outs with councils. In the worst case, I was acting on behalf of mam and step dad, who were being pursued for a council tax bill running to hundreds of thousands for some country estate we didn't even know existed until I looked it up on the internet. Had we had any connection to this estate, I'd have been laughing. It was was thousands of acres and had several farms on it. For reasons beyond my comprehension, the council had decided that a woman living in a terraced house in the cheap end of town earning a crust as a cleaner with a husband earning minimum wage as a security guard, had somehow acquired several thousand acres of the prettier parts of north yorkshire.

 

In case reassuring: I have used Small Claims Court using the internet web site (not against the council but rather an eBay scammer). At the time I thought it was good-money-after-bad, but the principle was important to me.

Court awarded in my favour (all by email / online - never had to leave my desk ) and gave me a link to an [online] bailiff. Again thinking "good-money-after-bad" I proceeded with that and within 7 days got a cheque from bailiff for the full amount, including interest, and all fees incurred. I was well chuffed

 

Some superb "how-to" advice from Clueless , Gcc and Kristen !
If anyone has the misfortune of getting into a dispute these are great guidelines. I never knew there were online small claims and bailiffs