Garden Escapees

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by stephenprudence, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. stephenprudence

    stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

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    I was taking a walk this evening on a woodland verge, and spotted three Berberis darwinii growing on the edge of the woodland.. these were odd though, they weren't the Berberis darwinii we know so well, but a yellow flowered form, of which I'd never encountered other than the orange form.. it struck me then, nature has created a hybrid!

    I have studied ecology in university and have a particular interest in woodland/plant evolution and naturalisation.. but the Berberis being in woodland is not a new thing to me, Berberis is becoming quite invasive as it goes, but it's relatively new invader, only in the last 5 years has it really started to colonize areas of woodland edge.. but this is not new; if you walk around the woodland, you'll find Hebe's, Cherry Laurels, Rhododendron (of course), Mahonia aquifolium and more.. (I even spotted a naturalised Viburnum tinus seedling in a thicket near a pub earlier on it Spring). Not to say my own garden hasn't it's own self seeded bretheren, it has Callistemon subulatus and Cotoneaster.

    It does seem to be naturalisation is picking up fast, and it is almost all evergreen, mediterranean type plants. In another thread I mentioned the evolution of forests/woodlands over time to fit in with climatic requirements.. well I do certainly see a change, largely thanks to human intervention in garden plants, but whilst most meet this with scepticism, and criticism, and an overwhelming urge to eradicate these things, my viewing of the situation leads me to believe we shouldn't be worried, nature is actually adapting to this change very well (well it would afterall).. the biggest winners out of this are the birds who seem to be thriving, and the bees who seem to be getting more nectar for their buck!

    So in general I guess the question is, what naturalised garden plants have been colonising woodlands/other areas near you?
     
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    • Sheal

      Sheal Total Gardener

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      Stephen,
      That's an interesting read. I can't actually think of any real woodland areas here, a lot of ground is taken up by pine plantations and apart from moss little else grows there.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        As you know, I have pretty much zero knowledge about the technical side of things when it comes to plants etc, however I often wonder why some people seem to get into such a lather about things becoming naturalised in the wild.

        Sure, I totally understand the argument when it comes to the likes of the grey squirrels and the resulting decimation of the native red; I even 'get' it when it comes to things like Japanese knotweed etc.

        However, there are many plants and animals that were clearly not native, yet they seem to thrive here and also contribute to the rich tapestry that makes up our countryside. A recent one I read was about signal crayfish that had thrived in waters near where I grew up; apparently, there are many people getting in a lather as these things are thriving, breeding and slowly out-competing the smaller, native, crayfish which is in dwindling numbers.

        Personally, I don't see the problem - not least because they are edible, and could be used to augment our domestic food supply. If the smaller ones lose out, then maybe that is the way that it was meant to be?

        I am always struck by humans arrogance when it comes to interfering with things that nature has adopted and adapted to.
         
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        • stephenprudence

          stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

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          I totally agree FC, and it's a line I take too, much against the normal, more ethical argument. Nature is constantly changing, and I think this is reflecting that change. Afterall 9000-5000 years ago, most of our woodland trees were introduced either by human help, or by natural means, but we accept those trees as our own native woodland, so therefore a strong, competitive plant that can and will survive here is surely better than the one that doesn't. Afterall nature doesn't discriminate between which species are good looking, and which are ugly.. it just brings on the most competitive species.

          When I'm walking around the woodland around our town, I'm seeing an evolution whereby 60% of seedlings popping up are evergreen, and only 40% or so are deciduous.. I think this is completely natural given our gradual change in climate recently.. and sure as not when the climate cools, things will revert away from garden invaders and back towards the deciduous woodland we are familiar with. But things are going to change anyway.. no matter how much we try to conserve our current species, it will change anyway in the future and we will have no control over it.. we have already lost the battle to to plants like Rhododendron ponticum and Willowherb (which are here to stay)
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            While I agree in part about new flora and forna filling out countryside, is not bad,
            I do tend to think if its a man made introduction then we need to be slightly careful.
            Lets face it most are man made these days.
            Rhododendron ponticum for example.
            Grey squirrel to name just a couple were we have perhaps goofed and there is no turning back.
            I'm not 100% sure but I think the crayfish is man's introduction.
             
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            I'm pretty sure that they are - but could it be that the introduction was part of the bigger 'design'? Plants produce pretty flowers so that insects will visit them to pollinate them, then they go on to produce tasty fruits so that animals will eat them and at some point later on (and presumably further away) excrete the seeds which then produce more plants etc.

            Could it be that we are all essentially doing the same task as those animals, except we are introducing new species to our local environments which then go on to thrive? Surely, if they weren't destined to survive in that place, they simply wouldn't?




            :dons 'deep and meaningful' t-shirt and goes off for a ponder:
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I get your point FC, but at some point our own flora and fauna loses out to aliens.
              Try convincing an Aussie of your argument, they would probably throw you in prison.
              Likewise many countries where alien species have just got totally out of control due to no natural preditors.
              We are lucky, we get hard frosts that destroy most newcomers.
               
            • stephenprudence

              stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

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              Is our concern about our flora and fauna based on our own emotions, and what we want.. nothing had the right to be there.. just as if an alien species came and wiped us out (I know that sounds ludicrous), they out competed us, and as a result things would change for sure. But I do think that things will change in the future anyway, so those species will be lost eventually.. a species that cannot adapt, will be weak in the 'eyes' of nature, a strong species will learn to adapt, and thus will influence the area around them.

              We have some wonderful species, but generally under change, some species will adapt, some will be lost, and some will migrate. Introduce species would probably evolve to make the best of our conditions, they might even evolve to allow co-existence between some of the species we have now...

              At the end of the day though humans keep and accept things they like...

              Daffodils are an invasive nuisance from China
              Spanish Bluebells are an invasive nuisance from Spain/Portugal
              Crocus is an invasive nuisance from Iran
              Irish Ivy is an invasive nuisance from Ireland
              Buddleia is an invasive nuisance from China
              Flowering Currant is an invasive nuisance from North America

              This list could go on to be honest...
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                I agree, things change regarding our flora and I'm not in anyway against things changing, I just think that often the change is not for the best and alien species can get totally out of control once introduced to new environments where they have no natural checks.

                I must admit I've not noticed any real change in woodland around this area, once you get away from the towns the woodland is basically the same as it always was.
                 
              • stephenprudence

                stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

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                yep Pete its definitely a suburban thing, woodland in suburban areas harbouring many none natives.. many of the woodlands could be classed as evergreen around my town... there is one plants that is getting out of control though, and that is our own native Holly.. the woodland, hilly, humid environment is benefiting it and it's getting a little too comfortable..

                It shares and co-exists with Rhododendron ponticum... surprisingly R. ponticum does not stop the spread of Holly.. in fact they co-exist side by side.. I actually think they both help each other out.. I think ecologically this is because they share a common past in the Mediterranean basin laurel forests. The same is also true of Prunus laurocerasus.. it's quite interesting. I wonder what would happen if a Laurus nobilis was introduced... that would be very interesting.

                I have always shared theories, but i do believe if these types of plants spread more widely, we would develop a Atlantic type Laurel forest.. which in the warmer environment we would see without question.

                I do understand the issue with none native taking over an area with no competitors, sadly for those that have already colonised, I think the only way to stop spread is by introducing other relic plants from similar areas of the world... this puts our current native species at risk though.

                The biggest offenders in my experience are Mediterranean species though.. and that tells you something about plant evolution.
                 
              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                As a freshwater angler, FC, I can assure you that the Signal Crayfish is upsetting the natural balance in our rivers and lakes. They are not just "thriving, breeding and slowly out-competing the smaller, native, crayfish which is in dwindling numbers" they have exploded in population all over the UK. They eat fish eggs, insect eggs, fry and various other things and in commercial fishing waters have effected the breeding of the fish. The natural eco system of our lakes and rivers has taken centuries to reach it's present state, albeit with the intervention, both bad and good, by man, and everything is interlocked and reliant on the interaction of our native species, and it only takes the introduction of an aggressive foreign species to create mayhem. I used to be able to wade through certain rivers of clear water and see fish fry and our own smaller Crayfish scattering ahead of me, but not now.l:dunno: But it not only the Signal Crayfish but other things like plants and insects that have been introduced through importation of goods from other countries, and it's in numbers that are larger than you think.
                 
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