Giant banana - Ensete montbeliardii

I was having a little Google (as you do), and came across this. Having just bought a few Ensete maurelii I was interested to know more about the species
The above picture is of Dave Brown, who I hope won't mind his picture being used, and his "Montbeliardii". Its a big plant.

Its a cultivar of Ensete ventricosum just as "Maurelii" is. Apparently, both come from Ethiopia, which used to be called Abyssinia - hence the plant's name of Red Abyssinian Banana. They are bred by Ethiopian farmers who use them for food, and have no interest in their ornamental use.

The original plant line was lost some time ago but a new cultivar has been introduced under the same name. Its very rare and quite expensive. Jungle Plants seems to be about the only supplier in the UK.

However what caught my eye on another forum was the suggestion that you could make the more common "Maurelii" grow like "Montbeliardii" by treating it with gibberellic acid. Having just bought 5 "Maurelii" - I am temped to have a go.

Dave Browns thread http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=6506

This was a quote from http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/banana/msg060609577447.html

Edit : A bit more Googling and I came across a very good post by Dave Poole (ex nurseryman and sometime poster on this forum). This talks about bananas in general.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/uk.rec.gardening/Ayf_-zUUvD4

 

Peters , I`ve bought 2 last summer at £3 each , if you see my old thread about tropical Bedford , at one point all the maurelli and left over bananas where free if you had spent £15 .

when I bought them , it didn`t say anything about the name , but I`ve notice the name on them was ethiopian banana and on the maurelli was sold as maurelli .

I can`t even thing about my garden without one of them.

 

Worth a try Peter, but that is not one years growth, is it?

I seem to remember reading it had narrower leaves than Maurelii, but I didn't think it grew much larger, just thinner.

I seem to remember a disscussion on HTUK some time back and most said they didn't like shredded nana leaves, and ensete tended not to shred so badly as musa.
Dave's looks like its been through a hurricane.

 

Sal - sorry I had totally forgotten that you had a previous thread on E. "Montbeliardii". http://www.gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/threads/banana-montbeliardii.45394/ I would have added my comments to that.

As Pete said in that thread, they are both cultivars of Ensete ventricosum. I have read that "Maurelii" is produced by tissue culture, but I am not sure that "Montbeliardii" is. Tissue culture is quite expensive to set up so nurseries just select certain plants. As "Montbeliardii" was developed by Ethiopian farmers rather than nurserymen it may not be tissue cultured. That might explain why it is only offered by about one or two places in the UK, as opposed to "Maurelii" which is in every supermarket.

Apparently the Ethiopians have a method of cloning by hollowing out the centre and growing point and then filling it with compost. This either kills the plant or forces it to produce 20 or 30 pups.

Pete - I agree that picture shows very shredded leaves - it had just been battered by gales. As far as shape is concerned I can only quote Dave Poole

Edit : Dave Poole made that quote in 2005. Koba-Koba has since gone out of business.

 

Not sure I'd bother with Gibberellic acid ... all that will happen is that you will elongate the petioles, so you'll need to keep reapplying it?

I have both Ensete maurelii and Montbeliardii, both handsome plants (and both came from Jungle Plants). I reckon the pseudostem on both is about the same [growth rate], but Montbeliardii grows more upright, and hence is taller overall [to tip of leaf].

Dave's is 3 or 4 years old I think, and that picture had been taken after strong Autumn winds. He's got some impressive pictures / videos of lugging it out of the ground after it is lifted each autumn, and the moment the rollers start in Spring he has to put it out as it grows too tall for his conservatory otherwise!

I reckon they are both propagated by tissue culture - the propagation rate by cutting them off at the knees to force them to "pup" is not going to be productive enough for commercial sales I reckon.

I'd be interested to know if the cheapie ones that appeared this year are the same as the Jungle Plants ones. Jungle have often referred to inferior alternatives which have appeared from time to time ... well they would, wouldn't they?! ... and I am certainly very pleased with the ones I have.


Maurelii in Oct 2012 - from a 1L plant in May




Montbeliardii in Oct 2012 - also from a 1L plant in May.

 

Thanks Kristen - Those are superb looking plants. It means much more when someone like you has both and can make a direct comparison. I have been reading a bit further, and it seems that size is simply a matter of age (and strength to keep lifting it) and that "Maurelii" will grow to a good size. I am sure you are right that they must both be tissue cultured.

Reading further , it appears that for most bananas :-

1) The process of overwintering by cutting off all the leaves, drying out the pseudostem base for a week and keeping it cold, dry and in the dark is very effective.

2) The base can happily survive the cold, but mustn't be damp as its susceptible to rot. As a result I am inclined to overwinter mine in a shed attached to the house, rather than under a bench in the greenhouse, where there is considerable condensation. If the storage temperature is too warm, above 12C or 15C perhaps (I don't know the actual figure) the plant will be trying to grow and will need light.

3) The stem bases must have free circulation of air to prevent rot. Dusting with sulphur powder also helps prevent rot.

4) A number of people have said that they must be stored upright, but Americans store them on their side, at sizes up to 9 feet long, in the crawl space under their houses.

5) Americans often leave some leaves on. These appear to go dormant in the absence of light but are considered to be a help in spring providing extra surface area for light collection.

5) There are two forms of damage that could be caused overwinter by the cold.

This perhaps is a good reason for lifting them before the first actual frost.

 

I overwinter mine under a huge upturned black plastic tub - the sort farmers buy sheeplick in. Keeps the rain off and some of the cold out. I could stuff it with straw also. Seems to have worked so far.

 

1) I think leaving as many leaves on, as possible, speeds the drying (i.e. the leaves "pull" more water)

2) Many folks overwinter them in their lofts. Watch out if yours is well insulated and the storage space above the insulation is therefore cold.

4) I've read of both methods. I store mine upright just in case the folk that had trouble with rollers coming out through the side have a valid point

5) Not heard that before. The leaves which grow in Spring, i.e. indoors, are not strong enough (i.e. don't get hardened off) and are likely to fail once the plant is outside (thus it can be a benefit to get the plant outside early, and bring in on cold nights, so that newly formed leaves are "outdoor-ready"), so leaves that have overwintered may not do very well come Spring? Of course if you can keep roots and leaves on the plant, and keep it almost-dry but slowly-growing during Winter, then you will be well placed come Spring but you might have more of a battle with rot. I'm trying that this winter, so I'll let you know next Spring !!

7) For dry stored "stumps": in Spring wait until there is decent root growth before watering - otherwise there will still be risk of rot.

 

I`ve done mine in a different way , cutted all the leaves off and left the plant unside down for 3 hours , just to let all water drop down , but I replanted in dry compost and put in the greenhouse , done this way for the simple reason that I restart mine in March , some fertilizer and rootgrowing .

 

red banana can not be overwinter outdoor , many peoples have tryed and failed before ...

 

I think this approach is a good one for lots of over wintered plants. Its easy to store, for example, Dahlias in trays over winter, but you then have to pot them up into 2L pots in spring ... when you are busy with other things. If you pot them into 2L in Autumn, using dry compost, then you can just start watering / feeding them in Spring and save a job at the busy time ...

 

That`s what I`m doing , the plant actually dasn`t dry but stays in a vegetative state , I use the same tecnique I use for alocasia , keep them alive otherwise will be really hard to restart them ........done last year and work perfect , as in May the plant look already nice and strong.

 

I'm over wintering mine for the first time and doing it the same way as you Sal. As long as the winter sun doesn't raise the greenhouse temperature too much it should be ok.

 

I've had mine in the greenhouse for about a month now and it looks as stunning now as it did at the end of the summer. The only point of concern for me was that the compost in the pot didn't seem to be drying out as quickly as my other plants in there; cannas etc so a couple of days I tipped it out of the large pot it was in and removed a lot of the compost before it had the chance to let any rot into the base of the plant (there were some lovely long big fleshly roots..). The remainder of the root ball is now wrapped in hessian and its standing in a pot to keep it upright. I plan on potting it up in dry compost when I have some that is dry enough but for now hopefully it'll be ok. The only leaves I've removed are some tatty lower ones, the others still look ok at the moment and I figure they'll help to draw more moisture out of the rootball???