heating system need help choosing

Discussion in 'Greenhouse Growing' started by TMAK, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. TMAK

    TMAK Tommy

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    Hi.
    I'm looking for some advice /help in choosing a heat source for our greenhouse.

    the greenhouse we have is a dig geodesic dome covered with polytunnel polythene. It has a diameter of 6 meters and is 3 meters high.

    We are looking to utilise the area more during the year and use it as more of an indoor garden/ chill out area. A nice spot to have a glass or 2 of vino or a bottle of beer in he evenings. The only problem is it gets a bit chilly at nighttime. So we have decided to heat it. But there are a lot of options.
    I don't think passive heating alone is enough to have a comfortable temperature. Seeing as we are heating it I plan to keep some tropicals out there to. so we are looking for ideas and pros and cons of supplemental heat.
    Initially we were thinking of buying a wood burning stove but there would be a lot of work keeping the fires burning.
    Out other options are gas or electric.
    Does anybody know how much it would cost to run either. The gas heater would be run on cylinders.
    I have priced a 4.2Kw gas heater online and it is pretty reasonable but I'm curious of the running costs before I commit to buying it. I'm not sure if I am aloud to post the brand on the forum.
    Otherwise would anyone know roughly the cost of using electric.

    Thanks for your help
     
  2. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    I would say electric all the way, and for one main reason - ventilation.

    If you were to use a wood burner of any variety, it would need a flue to remove all the combustion gases which would most likely be a nightmare to install into your greenhouse with a poly skin. To add to this, a constant and not insignificant stream of fresh air would be needed both to supply the fire, but also to supply you. The same problems apply to gas heating -- a 4.2kw gas heater is not going to be shy about consuming fuel, as well as oxygen. Butane/propane heaters also produce quite a bit of moisture, and of course CO as a result of the combustion process; whilst moisture isn't necessarily a problem in a greenhouse, if you were to be sat there with it dripping off the skin of the poly onto your head.......

    Now, electric heating would require much less ventilation (so less of your heat energy wasted), and is very easy to rig up with thermostatic control. I use a 3kW electric radiator in my greenhouse which is rigged to a thermostat which kicks the heating in when the temperature drops below 10ºC to maintain overnight temps. If you wanted more accuracy, you could go for one of these fellows which you could use to switch heating and cooling!

    As for the heater itself, you could use a fan heater, convection heater or an oil filled radiator.

    The fan heater might struggle as they tend to be 1kw or less, and there is a noise consideration when in use. Convection heaters are silent, but the heat from them can be quite fierce (risk of burnt fingers if there are kids around) and it also tends to yo-yo as the internal thermostat switches the heater on and off. Oil filled rads come in guises up to 3kw, are usually fully variable (you don't need to run them at the full 3kw all the time) and rather being an on/off/on/off sort of heat, they behave in the same way as your central heating radiators in your house.
     
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    • TMAK

      TMAK Tommy

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      Thanks for the Great Advice I would never have thought of the oil filled heaters. and love the idea that they are silent

      Thanks again FC
       
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      My pleasure. I can highly recommend the DeLonghi heaters - I have had a couple of them over the years and they are long lasting and reliable. :blue thumb:
       
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      • HarryS

        HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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        I use an oil filled radiator in my green house . I use it only when the temp is forecast at 6°c or lower. So I think it will be fairly economical . Now I have a standard size GH not a huge Geodome like yours . Do the manufactures not recommend a suitable system for your unit ?
         
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        • HarryS

          HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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          Also in your very large GH you may need a mix of heaters and fan-heaters to move the air for ventilation. I open the door on mine and wave a towel around :biggrin:
           
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          • sandymac

            sandymac Super Gardener

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            I have had several heating systems over the years coal, paraffin, gas but I found the most efficient is an electric fan heater, however you will need a good thermostat to control it to prevent hysteresis losses. most fan heaters with built in thermostats wildly over/undershoot required temp.
            I have a electricity monitor and using the fan heater with my thermostat reduces costs by 60%
            (proved with trial) My present greenhouse 6ft 6 x 16ft
            I use a 3Kw fan heater for the reasons stated by fat controller above.
            I use a bio green thermo 2 thermostat which is very similar to those inkbirds above only mine cost twice what they are.
            Hope this helps Alex
             
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            • CanadianLori

              CanadianLori Total Gardener

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              I use a gas heater but only because it is affordable natural gas and electricity is far too expensive over here, to use for heating.

              As others said, air circulation makes the biggest impact to how much it costs to heat a greenhouse. I have ceiling fans operated by solar power supplied batteries. These operate on the 1/2 hour for a few minutes which works out very well for keeping the heat off the ceiling and in turn, the heater cycles less frequently.
               
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              • ricky101

                ricky101 Total Gardener

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                Your roof covering, is it just a single skin or double ? if the former the heat loss will be high.
                Though do you get many frosts or snow in the west of Ireland or is your climate more like Cornwall and Devon ?

                As said, an electronic thermostat will be might better than typical inbuilt mechanical ones.

                With the height of the dome you might be better fitting a ceiling type for fan, to push the rising heat back down in winter and to aid cooling in summer.
                 
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                • Scrungee

                  Scrungee Well known for it

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                  oth
                  As heat loss through a single skin of polythene is phenomenal [1] compared to heating a glazed greenhouse, I have only attempted to heat polytunnels when there's been an exceptionally late cold spell in May, or for just a couple of days of cold weather in early autumn that would be sufficient to keep the crops inside going for several more weeks after normal temps resumed.


                  [1] I have put temperature data loggers in both my greenhouse and polytunnels. The temperatures in the tunnels still crash around dawn, even with heating.
                   
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                  • TMAK

                    TMAK Tommy

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                    Hi HarryS I think 6degrees when not in use will probably be the cut off point. Might look at 10 when I get a better idea of the cost difference.
                    Unfortunately I am the manufacturer its a home made one I put made a few years ago !
                     
                  • TMAK

                    TMAK Tommy

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                    Cheers Alex yep that helps a lot gives an idea of the size of heater I may need.
                    I ordered on of those Inkbirds on Fat Controlers recommendation and eagerly awaiting its arrival tomorrow
                     
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                    • TMAK

                      TMAK Tommy

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                      Cheers Lori. The solar fan is a great idea. I may have to start perusing around Amazon again
                       
                    • Fat Controller

                      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                      It is a great bit of kit - I have used mine for homebrewing too, to switch a fan on to cool things down a bit when they were getting a bit vigorous.
                       
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                      • TMAK

                        TMAK Tommy

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                        Hi Ricky101 its a single skin polythene all over the dome. fot the next on I build I am looking at using Polycarbonate, should be a much better job.

                        in a normal year we would only get a sprinkling of snow once or twice a year and maybe 10 light frosts max. just lots and lots of rain. I'll definitely look into the fan. Thanks
                         
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