Indoor winter greens using flood and drain system with PVC pipes

Let me just quickly introduce myself: I’m a happy hobbyist farmer from Sweden and I need those leafy green vegetables even in winter time so I figured, why not grow them in a hydro system!

I have made an initial design (See the picture) but I have not found this exact setup anywhere else so now I need your advice: (sorry for poor picture quality!! See picture:

First, is the general idea right or are there any major faults in my design?

I want to use organic nutrition if possible, that's why I have clay pebbles in the pipes to act as a bio-filter. Will this work and what nutrition is preferred? Do I havve to buy it or could I make my own?

The reason for using two separate water tanks is to not have the pump running all the time. This way I can have a quick pump with a float-valve that pumps all the water to the self-draining tank. Is this a good idea?

Will it be to dry and warm? The setup will be pretty close to a wood fired stove going almost constant in daytime.

Will temperature fluxes be a problem? Since we have little or no extra heating it gets pretty cold over night. Haven’t yet measured the MAX/MIN temp but guess is MAX 25 and MIN 15.

Let´s start with theese questions

Cheers!

 

Hi,

Also wondered about those temperatures, are you talking about growing the plants indoors , hence the sofa ?

As you say you are a hobbyist farmer how many plants are you talking about, 10 , 20, 50 100+ ?

What plants are you actually talking about, cabbages, lettuce ??

Have looked at hydroponics a few times for growing my tomatoes in summer but it always seems a lot of hard work and expense when done on a small scale, plus many hobby growers report poor taste.

The Americans seem to have a lot of Ytubes for diy hydroponics but of course many are in the very hot and sunny west coast areas.

Still a lot to be said for simple soil.

 

Hi Dagger you have several problems.

Your system seems to have the water/feed constantly running over the roots and the pump keeping the header tank topped up using a float start/stop so the pump runs intermittently. If so constantly submerging the roots may lead to rot

I only have the water/feed running over the roots intermittently called flood and drain this allows for plenty of oxygenation of the roots.
As a rooting media I have always used coarse coco coir which holds a large amount of oxygen if you can not get Coir use rockwool
If you use Coir you will have to pre charge or supplement calcium as coir holds onto calcium.
Rockwool is easier for new starters until you get experienced.

You will only need to run the pump 10 mins every hour on a timer ( you will have to experiment with timings depending upon media used) your close fire may mean running longer

1) as pointed out by JWK you main problem is light, (I lived in Norway and know how short daylight is up there) you will need supplementary lighting to give at least 12 hours of light per day.

2)Your temps may be ok.

As for feed I use Bio Bizz Grow and bloom organic feed. Remember even with organic feed you will have to empty the system and refresh the feed every two or three weeks. due to build up of salts/unbalance

Organic feeds tent to block up systems so are not suitable if using any fine tubes and can stick floats.
You can make your own feed

Comfrey tea can be made. Fill a bucket with comfrey and cover with water use lid and leave for three weeks this will stink. Use the resultant liquid diluted to a weak tea consistency.

Comfrey tea is rich in nitrogen and potassium The nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium (NPK) ratio of dried comfrey leaves is 1.8-0.5-5.3; comfrey also contains calcium.

Stinging nettles can also be used same method as comfrey

Stinging nettles are lower in potassium than comfrey and contain an average N2:P0:K5 but with high trace elements

Hope this helps




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Wow, great replies! Thank you all. I have realized some things about my design and as you point out sandymac, the constant flow is not a good idea, also it would mean having to get 2 tanks instead of only one and since the tank will be about 100 L it will not fit in my small room.

Yes the grow room is in my house and I will use hanging lights (sorry for my poor description and picture).

I want to try out hydro because it seems easier in some way than having to handle all the soil indoors. But I see what you mean with expensive equipment - pump, ph-meter, ec-meter and all the rest. But I see it as a step on my path to doing aquaponics in the future.

My idea now is having a timer to the pump just as you say sandymac.

I want to grow small plants like sallads and herbs.

Great idea with organic feeds, I know them well these two, smells awfull Anyway it's winter here in Sweden soon and there are no greens to be found. So I have to use the ordinary nutrition I bought last year, which I still have anyway so..

Can I use the compost tea I get from my worm farm? Will the microbes in the substrate be enough to make the nutrition plant-available?

Will I have to aerate the water or can I try without to start with? Feels like aeration makes alot of noise.

 

Hi Dagger
You have to be careful with compost tea which needs to be aerated to prevent harmful anaerobic activity creating toxins. compost tea has to be made correctly do not use leachate from worm farm which may also contain toxins from un-composted material.
If you use your ordinary nutrition you should not need aeration as the feed water will be circulated, you just have to be careful of the type of fertiliser you use you do not want it to settle out. I use an old aquarium power head water pump to circulate the water around the tank which is very quiet, I have it pumping so it discharges above water level and trickles back as I like the sound of trickling water. (submerged axial rotary) Aeration pumps are usually diaphragm and are usually noisy.
If you change the feed water every three weeks you will not need expensive equipment.
I have ph metres etc. However I use simple aquarium test kits a £4 kit will do 500 ph tests.
I am growing mixed salad leaves, radishes , turnips (small white salad turnips not swedes) at the moment with this method not had to use any supplemental light yet.
I use Coco Coir as bedding in my worm farm and mix 10% of the finished compost with the growing medium and I find this gives much healthier pants and they taste much better than shop bought. I doubt you would get any benefit using chemical fertiliser as it would kill the beneficial microbes.
If you live near the sea you could use seaweed to make an organic fertiliser which has numerous benefits (over 50 trace elements including magnesium, potassium, zinc, iron, and nitrogen). Seaweed fertilizers are especially useful in organic gardening. They contain almost every micro-nutrient which is fully chelated (immediately available) It also contains hormones which are auxins, gibbelerins, cytokinins and betaines.

Regards Sandy

 

Hi Sandymac,

Found the description of your hydro system interesting, as its something I have thought about many times.
Have plenty of pumps etc from my fishkeeping days, and also have one of those ebay £6 yellow PH pen type meters which do seem quiet accurate and easy to use.

Wondered if you have any pictures of your working system to show us a good way to set up the planting pots and waterways and /or a ytube link to a similar set up that you would recommend ?

One of the key things you mention is that the taste is good, have you grown Toms and found them tasting good too ?

While I do not have an active wormery, and cannot use my compost heaps due to some rats getting in now and then, is there some other product you can suggest that would add the microbes etc to the coir.

thanks

 

hi ricky101
I grow my tomatoes in quadgrows which is described in tomato growing
I have cut and pasted my trials in 2016 below.
Last year I used method 1 and had a great crop, I also grew some in the border pot method as a comparison I will use method 1 in the future as my toms in 2017 were great with some of the best tasting toms specially steak sandwich, tigrella and Juanne Flamme.

2016 experiment.
Quadgrow x 2
Method 1) Pots filled with Canna compost + worm compost FBB, seaweed meal mychorrhizae fungi, and Cal/mag.
Fed weekly into top of pot with organic fertilizer (Bio Bizz Grow and Bloom) using only water in tank for constant supply, this water airated with air pump and stone. This has eliminated blossom end rot and a great crop of tasty toms. Still cropping. 19th Sept

Quadgrow x 2
Method 2) Pots filled with Canna compost + worm compost FBB, seaweed meal mychorrhizae fungi and Cal/mag Used as directed by quargrow with their chemical fertilizer in tank, (Nutri grow half strength) this water airated with air pump and stone, cleaning out tank every four weeks and replenishing with fresh fertilizer.
Good crop But not as tasty as in 1) However tanks have to be cleaned out every 3/4 weeks or so and replenished as get gunged up. This has eliminated blossom end rot and cracking/splitting, good until early August when plants suffered nutrient burn. This led to disease entering plants at burn sites.

Quadgrow x 2
Method 3) Pots filled with Canna compost + worm compost FBB, seaweed meal mychorrhizae fungi and Cal/mag. Used as directed by quargrow however using bio bizz organic fertilizer in tank. airated with air pump and stone,
Good crop and still cropping . However tanks have to be cleaned out every 3/4 weeks or so and replenished as get gunged up. This has eliminated blossom end rot and cracking/splitting, great crop of tasty toms. Still cropping. 19th Sept

Note in all cases roots have grown down into the tank and are thick and healthy

Method 4) Eight plants of four different varieties grown in bottomless pots in border, filled with Garden compost + worm compost + rotted horse manure, FBB, seaweed meal mychorrhizae fungi and Cal/mag added Border consists of soil and home made compost. Pots fed weekly with maxicrop tom feed.
These toms suffered blossom end rot and cracking. Plants also produced much less fruit and the taste was OK but not half as good as quadgrow in method 1) Plants now finished cropping.

Will use method 1) next year as this allows me to grow organically and removes any erratic watering, Also removes the need to dump tank contents and renew.
Tanks only require topping up every four days with large plants.
Will use all the nutri grow for my flowers.
Regards Sandy

 

I use a basic set up like this mine wanders around and is not as neat and does not look as good as this but it works.
I use an aquarium power head instead of the air pump

 

Hi Sandymac,

Many thanks for all that info, sounds very interesting ,will have to do a lot more searching and reading up !

 

Thank you so much for your detailed answer Sanymac!

This woke some questions though. If compost tea is not good, wont mixing in wormcompost into the substrate generate the same effect just in a smaller amount?

How are comopst teas made the right way?

Which toxins can form and why aren't they broken down by bacteria in the substrate?

How can chemical fertilizer kill good bacteria? And do you know how the organic fertilizer that you buy for hydroponics is made? I mean, in which way is it better than the chemical one?

I have chemical fertilizer since last year so I think I will use that this year. Good idea to use aquarium head pump for aeration! I also like the sound of trickling water
Unfortunately not living close to the sea...

 

Compost tea is good if made correctly, leachate the liquid coming from the bottom of a worm composter is not good
Compost tea is made by using fully composted material in an porous bag suspended in water which must be vigorously aerated for no more than three days. if not aerated anerobic bacteria multiply.

Various toxins form when foodstuffs rot and has not had time to be broken down by friendly bacteria overfeeding a worm bin for example will give toxic leachate as it has not had time for the bacteria, fungus and worms to do their thing.

Chemical fertiliser are concentrated salts . Synthetic nutrients kill off mycorrhizae, so myco-only products are best used strictly in organic systems, Bacteria strains are more durable than mycorrhizae when it comes to synthetic nutrients. Bacteria can withstand the concentrated nutrient levels found in synthetics but not for long.
organic fertilisers are made from plant material and have much lower levels of salts.

 

Okay, I see. I will research a bit more into it I think. Thank you once again for an informative answer!

I think I will go with the inorganic fertilizer this time since I have it. Then I might try organic next year or when I run out of it. I will soon post a new drawing of my system.