is my butia capitata dying

Hi my name is Sarah and I'm a passionate but novice gardener and a newby to forum's, so please forgive any mistakes I may make, either in the garden, or in my first attempts in joining a forum.
So here goes..... I live in the South west of England and have had my Butia Capitata for 3 years, I bought a relatively mature plant, for the first two years it was happily living in a very large pot on my patio and last summer we moved it into its final home in a large planter with drainage built in, and for the rest of the year it seemed to like its new home. Even though we didn't experience the worst of the winter down here in the south, we did have a big freeze prior to Xmas and snow for about 10 days in January, however although some of the new fronds from last years growth turned brown Butia appeared unharmed. However the other evevning, with the essential glass of wine in one hand, strolling around the garden i was horrified to find that all the fronds on the aforementioned jelly palm seemd to have closed up and the tips appeared brown, it looks very sad and stressed. I did think it may be thirsty, but the soil was not excessively dry, i did however give it a good soaking in the hope that this was the problem, sadly there has been no change.
I guess my question to the forum would be, is it possible that my jelly palm is just in need of water or could it be suffering from something more sinister and if so what can i do, if anything, to help it recover.
Wow what an essay, hope your still with me. Thanks for listening. Any advise would be gratefully recieved.
I have just had another close inspection of the fronds and some appear to have started to split also there are some brown spots and brown colouring appearing on the stems?

 

A picture would be nice Sarah.

My guess is that the roots froze last winter.
Whether it can pull through from that only time will tell, but until it starts to make new growth I would be careful on the watering and keep it just moist but never wet.
Its not a plant that I have had much experience of as I only have a relatively small plant which spent the winter in the garage, I think they need to be planted out in the ground to become really hardy.

 

Thanks Pete,
I'm at home tomorrow so will take a few pics and post them in the hope it will help diagnose the problem, my partner is away sailing for three weeks and if butia were to die, he would be very sad, but amused as it would only add to my disaters in the garden, last year i lost 3 mimosa's, 2 bottlebrushes, 1 very large agave and a cyprus tree which was attacked by ants!! this year i lost 2 agaves,( you would think i would have learn't the first time!!), 1 small orange tree a cycad and so far i have not seen my rodgersia's appear? Perhaps i should be looking for a new hobby!
Thanks again for your advise, i will hold back on the watering for a mo.
Sarah

 

Hi Marley
thanks for the help i will have a go at tugging on the inner buds to see if they come up, strangely, out of the three new fronds that are there, two look healthy, the only healthy looking part of the palm, and one is completley brown which looks like probable frost damage, but i will take some pics and post them tomorrow. I also have a chamaroeps humilis which is planted in an identical planter only a few yards away which although has recieved some frost damage still appears to be OK, and i thought that the Butia was hardier than the Chamaroeps? But if you read my reply to Pete you will understand why i could be sooooo wrong!!:hehe:
Thanks again, Photos will follow
Sarah

 

Hi
Photos attached, (i hope), as promised.The first four are when it was in a pot and then planted out last year, the fith is a photo of it today looking very sorry for itself, i have taken some close ups and will post them next. Hope the photos help identify the cause of its ailment.
Look forward to hearing what you think
thanks Sarah

 

OK that seemed to work, i will attach the other four, these are close ups of the fronds, the base, and the new fronds in the centre. I did have a go at tugging on these but they didn't budge!! i thought the brown one might but that seemed pretty much attached too? Hope these give you a better idea? i have my fingers crossed that someone out there may recognise the symptons and identify why butia looks so sick.
Here's hoping! Sarah

 

Sarah, I'm sorry I was under the impression that it was growing in a pot, where you have it looks idea.

Also, apart from one young frond which appears dead,I cant see much wrong with it, it looks fine.

I'm guessing you bought it last year?
If so it may well have just spent its first winter in the UK, and after the one we have had I would expect a little damage at least.

Not sure if I'm seeing a few scale insects in one of the pics, (2nd one in the second batch).

I've seen worse looking palms than that come good.

As long as the growing point keeps moving upward it will be fine.

I find in general that palms do not establish quickly and a couple of years of not much movement can happen, they seem to suddenly take off once established.
They are long term plants and not good for a quick fix.

 

I was having a look at the pics Sarah and like Pete I couldn't see much wrong with it apart from the odd bit of browning which many palms suffer from.
I was wondering what the soil mix was as I know they don't like peat or soiless composts and will grow better in loam based or garden soil.
I presume some gravel or some sort of drainage was put in before planting.

Mine is in a large pot and fortunately untouched by the winter. One day it will have to go in the ground and then we will see what happens.

 

Hi Pete,
I bought butia in Febuary 2008 and it lived in a pot for just over a year, photo 1 of first batch, we had a pretty cold spell in febuary 09 but it didn't have any effect on Butia at all and i lost a lot of other plants, i planted it in its final home in may of last year, photo 2 and 3 and it appeared very happy there. We did have about a week of heavy snow in feb of this year and a big freeze in december following lots of rain, but it has only been this last week that it has begun to look sickly or at least that i have noticed.

You mentioned scale insects, i have looked for signs of insects but nothing stands out, there does seem to be a white powdery look about the fronds and some of them are going patchy, different shades of green and then brown, there is also a coppery brown colour that has appeared on the base of the palm and on the underside of the lower fronds which wasn't previously there ?

Perhaps like you say, its probably just showing the effects of a harsh winter, I did lose the heads of some cordyline palms that were in pots, i am just so used to seeing it look so healthty and lush, would it benefit from a thick mulch of well rotted horse manure, i did wonder if it might need some nutrients?

Thanks for your feedback, it's good to have other peoples opinions and advise. Much appreciated.
Sarah

 

Hello strongylodon,

I was wondering if the problem maybe in the soil. The planter is about 3-4ft deep and lined with a membrane, we are in the process of renovating the garden, part of which was creating a bog Garden, but to ensure it got enough water we first dug trenches and put in drainage pipes that come from all over the garden including from the base of the butia planter , we then filled the bottom of the planter with about 1ft of granite gravel, and then a mix of about 1 third of gravel, and the remaining 2 thirds were 2:1 of topsoil to well rotted horse manure, and then dug it over with a digger to mix it all up. The drainage seems very good, as the soil when i dig it over is crumbly and not sticky, maybe it is too free draining? but we do get a lot of rain as well as sunshine down here in devon and i guess i wanted to ensure that it didn't get waterlogged. we had to buy in some topsoil i believe it came from a field somewhere in Cornwall, my partner would know but he is away at the mo? when i tested it last year it was neutral to acid but perhaps i should do a further test?
Any further thoughts after reading this? Both you and Pete have said it looks ok, but the leafs/fronds are normally open and they seem like they are curling over and actually closing together on some of the branches, please forgive my terminology, i am not sure if the fronds are the branches or the leaflets on the branches!!
Thanks for listening
Sarah

 

Thanks Marley, i will keep my toes and fingers crossed and keep an eye on her, I'm just behaving like an over anxious mother! :gnthb:

 

We had it very cold here in Kent in winter 09, but more damage has been done this last winter, I think its just been more prolonged and perhaps a bit wetter.

I've noticed quite often that semi hardy plants can look OK until the weather warms up, then instead of growing they just start to look worse each day.
I dont think thats whats happening in your case though, I hope.

I dont think personally I would give it a mulch, its a plant that can survive dry conditions and I think excessive feeding at this stage would not be good.
It needs to grow hard.

The white powdery effect is probably normal, its a waxy bloom that forms on the fronds.
The"possible" scale insects are yellowish and are firmly attached to the frond ribs, it takes a finger nail to remove them at this time of the year.

Give it time, once the roots really get going you will never need to water or fertilise and it will look after itself.
Edit
Sarah I've just read that its not got a free root run, why???

 

I guess you mean because we lined the planter with a membrane?

This was so that any excess water would collect in the drainage pipes raher than drain away and then feed directly into the bog garden, we thought that because the planter was deep we wouldn't need to worry about the roots outliving the space, was i wrong?