Kill lawn and start again

Hello everyone,
I am a new member and new gardener! Bought a house with a small
garden and small lawn about 9m by 4m.
The lawn was a mess with tough grasses and weeds up to chest high. Ive chopped it all down and mowed it.
I was trying to kill it off and then start again, so I covered it in black plastic about 6 weeks ago as Auntie Google told me to do (didnt want to use chemicals), and today took off the plastic. there are still some green spots of tough weeds, so Ive dug the whole thing and turned over the top soil.
So, next steps, there are loads of really tough thick roots in amongst the earth and I doubt that I've killed all the baddies.
Should I recover and just wait till next spring so its all dead? Or just chuck loads of chemicals on it?

 

Hiya Bob,,well you already decided not to use chemicals so I would carry on digging. Dig thoroughly and remove every piece of root you see. No need to rush it because September is the ideal time to sow grass seed. So use the next few weeks to prepare your lawn.
It is important to clear weeds and large stones and then to rake and firm it. Best way to firm it is to walk on your heels. Hard on the feet but worth it. Rake level, firm again and rake...do this several times until the soil is level and even.
I would use a dwarf rye grass.....it is tough and produces a pretty good lawn.
Sowing grass seed is best done in 2 stages....sowing one way and then sowing the opposite way but get back to us in September for this.
Some may argue against a lawn but for me it sets everything off in the garden so patience and doing it right is worth it Bob

 

@Bob Carolgees - it's all down to how much work you want to do and digging up thick roots will take time and patience; sever (and spread) the roots of tough persistent weeds or fail to remove weed grasses and they'll keep coming back with a vengeance for months.

Using chemicals safely won't harm 'Spit the Dog' unless you poison yourself in the process . Your telly program was awesome

I'd leave it alone for at least a month for weeds and grass to grow back then unleash a SBK dose of glyphosate over the entire lawn. But everybody has their own approach.

 

ok thanks chaps,
Looks like I've got some more digging to do then. Mowerman, you say I should not sever and spread the roots. I had the idea that I would dig up the roots and then bury them under a topsoil of earth so that they would rot and put nutrient back into the soil, but it seems I should be doing the opposite and I am in fact just burying an army of weeds and grasses to attack us next summer! So I should just get them out of the soil completely?

I also have a large red ant nest in the middle of the lawn, would glyphosphate kill them as well? I don't mind the black ants but I don't want the red ones biting Sally James legs. Perhaps I should just nuke the lawn with glyphosate, was hoping to stay away from chemicals but if it kills two birds with one stone.

 

Bob, glyphosate is my choice too but I got the impression you didnt want to use chemicals!
Glyphosate wont work on brown stuff....needs to be applied to actively growing green material..... very much in agreement with mowerman.
Those ants? No glyphosate wont work on them.....2 choices here; nematodes or chemicals

 

OK thanks both. Get back to you at planting time.

 

As regards Glyphosate, I would like to point out that the cancer-research arm of the World Health Organization has announced that glyphosate, the world’s most widely used herbicide, is probably carcinogenic to humans. They have placed it in Class 2A, the next highest level.

As such when environmentally friendly methods to kill weeds are both available and cheaper, my personal opinion is that to use it is folly.

 

When it is gone it is gone.......glyphosate is effective as a one-off; in most cases no need to use again.
There is nothing else on the market and we will miss it.
Reputedly it is inactivated in the soil and carries no lasting effects
A few years ago I cleared my garden of bindweed, oxalis, bramble and ivy using glyphosate. It took a summer, maybe two, and ever since I have had no need of it. It was clean to use with replanting taking place within 3 weeks. I garden organically with bees, butterflies, birds, hedgehogs and the like thriving here. Without using glyphosate I would still be trying to control those weeds.
Most fungicides, insecticides, air fresheners, household cleansers, fuels, and many foodstuffs like bacon are carcenogenic......and all of these are used repeatedly!!! Far more of a danger I think!

 

I've never used glyphosate for years. Ever since I discovered alternatives. Therefore, in my case, it will not be missed.

Whilst it is true that a lot of things in everyday use are carcinogenic, very few of them are surrounded by as much controversy as glyphosate.

 

True Sandy.
I like to read old garden books and it is quite shocking what poisons were once used to grow foodstuffs
Who knows how bad glyphosate will prove to be but a little goes a long way so ground and foliage is not drenched with it en masse.
Although not a regular user of glyphosate a few weeks back I sprayed a large bramble that was growing near a honeysuckle. 5 min spray and now dead. Bees still visiting the honeysuckle. I could not have dug out that bramble without damaging honeysuckle....????
Without glyphosate our gardens are going to look a bit different and be a lot more difficult

 

I picked up an old Percy Thrower Gardeners World book at a car boot a few years back. He pretty much recommends the use of DDT for every pest and disease you can think of

 

I have a similar problem in my garden at present. A couple of elm trees have decided to take root in the middle of my Siberian Pea hedge. The big problem is, we are not legally allowed to kill elms here. I have been given a tip though of how to get rid of it "legally" without digging it up. I'll post the results if and when it works.

Regarding older gardening books. It is remarkable how some of the chemicals and poisons that were recommended back then were considered safe, but are banned today. Is that progress? Whatever it is, I agree. Our gardens are going to look a bit different, as well as being more difficult to manage.

 

@Sandy Ground - you have serious knowledge of plants, wildlife and you're a great guy too (not buttering you up - just saying... OK!!)

Your mention of environmentally friendly herbicides is interesting and worth taking onboard. Which systemic ones do you use or advocate apart from Glyphosate?

So many prouducts these days are deemed as 'potentially carcinogenic. Foodstuffs alone: bacon, crisps, alcohol, over-cooked toast, wolf nipple chips (sorry, couldn't resist that one) to name but a few.

The potential EU ban on Glyphosate doesn't affect farmers for many years after a public ban. The irony of it is that farmers use it to not only kill weeds in arable fields but also the crops to speed up harvesting times

The logic in the Eurocrats minds will eventually see gardens, then fields of food crops over-run with 'wildflowers' that will have a negative impact on crop producion, leading to the use of non-selective herbicides that linger around and contaminate soil and produce a lot longer that Glyphosate

 

The thing that I am using more and more is a mix of water, neem oil and what we call green soap. This is made from pine trees. In itself, this does not kill weeds, although it does kill bugs and other insects on plants. I simply spray it on, not worrying about it getting onto other plants due to wind drift, etc.

The mix tends to stick to the weeds, so its just a matter of using either a hot air gun, or gas powered burner to heat the weeds up to 95C. This "cracks" the cells, therefore killing the plant.

As regards the problem with the elm in my Siberian Pea hedge. One of the local farmers has tipped me to add salt to the above mix to make a kind of gel. This not only enables it be brushed on, but also works in a second way. Salt stops water being taken up by the elm (in this case) and therefore starts its demise. After a day or so, it can also be heated as above.

I'll be trying this as soon as the weather improves, so will let everyone know if it works.

 

They will ban chemicals and access from the public first. This has slowly been going on for years.
With modern tech spraying herbicides has got a lot more refined right down to equipment that can use Glyphosate neat thus cutting down on amounts used.
The largest abuse comes from public who use be domestic or commercial herbicides. At the moment anyone can purchase the commercial stuff but the end user must be trained or under supervision but if you check various shops online you can see how people abuse the chemicals.
They either believe after trying to read the instructions that it can be used via a watering can so cover the area in obscene amounts or believe that they should go stronger than the recommended dose.
Each year it's harder to find products like lawn weed and feeds that aim at a large number of weeds. I use to use renovator Pro but it's changed as some chemicals were banned and so they have altered the N ratio to a higher degree to try to force the grass growth to combat weed growth. I'm not into excessive growth for all applications.
Even straight fertilisers are not free from chemicals and you often see these ploughed on at times and a lawn that requires constant feed is a poor lawn and I've seen my fair share of them.
The good news is there are some fairly good enviro friendly fertilisers and while they don't have the impact of more traditional products they work fine if applied correctly and the weather favours your work.