Knocking the chill off..........

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    OK, I know it is still summer, but I am planning ahead.... mostly as I have a few repairs to do in the kitchen anyway and it makes sense to do it all at the same time.

    Generally, our house is quite warm and well insulated, however the radiator count is at the bare minimum; there are two radiators for the entire bottom floor of the house, with no heating in the porch or the kitchen - the porch isn't too much of an issue, as there is a door between the living room and the porch with draught excluders fitted. The kitchen, however, is a different story.

    We do not have a door between the kitchen and the living room (nor is sufficient space for one to be fitted) and there is no heating in the kitchen (well, there is a plinth fan heater installed but it is not fit to use and would cost a fortune to run) - we have a curtain that we put up on a tension rod in the door frame between the living room and the kitchen which helps a bit, and we don't really need the kitchen heated as such - however, there is a real draught problem at floor level.

    When the temperatures drop, you can literally feel an icy blast coming from under the kitchen cupboards - I presume that it is coming in around the water & gas pipes and the incoming mains cables; a couple of years ago, I took the kick-boards off the cupboards and stuffed loft insulation underneath the cupboards to try and stop the draughts, which helped but only a little bit. So, I am now wondering if I would be better to try and warm the incoming air just a bit to knock the chill off?

    My thinking was, that if I removed the loft insulation material from under the cupboards, and then installed a few tubular heaters (80w-ish each) in the space under the cupboards that they would warm the air up just enough as it was coming in that we wouldn't feel the icy blast?
     
  2. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Is the wall where the draught getting in South facing?
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      One of them is - it is the two external walls, although the south facing wall faces out onto a small alleyway, so is relatively sheltered. The other wall is west facing, out onto the back garden
       
    • Phil A

      Phil A Guest

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      I was thinking about building a cold frame over the vent to warm the air before it came in, or at least stop the wind blowing thru it.
       
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      • Jiffy

        Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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        If you have suspended floors, sometimes cold air creeps in through any caps between floor and wall
         
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        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          It is all concrete floors, and I can't see any vents - I filled one hole last year, around the drain pipe, with expanding foam but that didn't do anything; I can only assume that it is coming up from the ground, or where the pipes come in.

          @Zigs - no space for a cold frame on this corner of the house unfortunately, it is the only access point to the back garden without going through the house.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            I really cant see how there can be cold air getting in from outside through mains pipe holes, these mostly come up from under ground in my experience.

            I think you might be getting cold coming up through the floor, modern housing has insulation under concrete floors, anything from the 60s, 70s or earlier is unlikely to have it.

            I think you really need to up the amount of heating you have, two radiators? but how big are they and how big are the rooms?
            If you can actually feel a draught from under the kitchen units it suggests to me that maybe somewhere behind those units someone has knocked a hole through to the cavity.

            Not sure if you have cavity wall insulation.
             
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            • Scrungee

              Scrungee Well known for it

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              Sounds like you have a potentially serious building defect/possible route for vermin infestation to me.
               
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              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                We do have cavity wall insulation, which made quite a difference when it was installed, @Scrungee - I have been under the cupboards as far as I can, with lights, to try and see any gaps/holes etc and cannot see anything. We did have a vermin problem a few months back when our (then) neighbour's son burned down their chicken shed - but they only took up residence in our outhouse, which would suggest that the house itself is secure?

                @pete - the house was built in the 50's I believe, so most likely won't have any insulation built into the floor. In terms of radiators, there is nowhere to mount another one - I even considered a low-ish wattage flat panel electric one, but have nowhere suitable to mount it where an electrical supply is reasonably available.

                Excuse my poor drawing skills, but I have done a diagram of the floor plan:


                fplan.png
                The shaded blue area shows where the draught comes in at floor level.
                 
              • Scrungee

                Scrungee Well known for it

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                Definately sounds like a matter for the Landlord to investigate and resolve.

                Installing electrical points in a kitchen (for anything, including heating as proposed)now requires Building Regs approval.
                 
              • Scrungee

                Scrungee Well known for it

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                And possibly just pointed around around the pipework, etc. externally, just sealing the hole through the external skin of the cavity wall, but did they omit to also seal around waste pipes/tumble drier exhaust/outside tap holes/etc. through the internal skin of the cavity wall, and are these exit holes obscured by the back panels on the kitchen units?
                 
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                  Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
                • Sheal

                  Sheal Total Gardener

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                  You say you have a curtain between the kitchen and living room at the moment FC. Is it possible to replace that with a folding door that sits within the frame?

                  Regarding the draught. It's not rebounding in the kitchen from somewhere else, perhaps the staircase? Sometimes it's just cooler air coming from another area of the house. I have a similar problem where I live but I have a door between living room and hall to stop it.
                   
                • zilly

                  zilly Gardener

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                  I seriously think you need more heating. Remember we had a draughty old house once, some nights it was like a proper wind blowing round our legs. We invested in a second hand coal fired Rayburn cooker which solved all our problems, we were always toasty warm after it was up and running. To this day love solid fuel cookers.
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    I wouldn't be installing anything - hence the idea for the tubular heaters as they are simply plug in jobs - simply run an extension cable round the side of the cabinets and then it can lie underneath out of sight.

                    I will have a closer look when we fix the tap, and see if there is anything obvious - there are no backs on the cabinets which is handy, so we can see the walls without dismantling anything.

                    @Sheal - it could be, but the staircase is in the living room, and doesn't have that much of a draught to it. There is a wall and an area of open room between the stairs and the kitchen. Folding door might be a possibility, but I reckon the wall is too thin (so it would stick out when open)
                     
                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    I experimented last year with an oil filled plug in radiator standing in the kitchen on the coldest nights, and it made the world of difference - again, this is part of my thinking that low-level heat knocking the chill off the air might be enough. It was awkward having the radiator standing in the kitchen, and I don't really want a 3kw heater munching electricity when all that is needed is something to knock the chill out of the air.
                     
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