London Attack

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. daitheplant

    daitheplant Total Gardener

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    I agree Pete. Also, no matter how many police /army personnel we have on the ground, how do they stop another nutter hiring/stealing a vehicle and running down more victims before having their brains shot out?
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      I notice Mr Khan has jumped on the bandwagon today questioning the fact that the security services have know about the attackers and done nothing.

      I'm pretty sure Mr Khan would have been one of the first to complain, had the police hassled these people without them actually having committed an offence.


      Which is why nothing gets done, they are, (the police etc.) walking a very narrow path trying to contain such individuals but not allowed to upset the Muslim community.
       
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      • Jiffy

        Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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        Basic policing is very poor and when in the countryside it even gets worst to the state of none :sad: even when you report something nowt happerns
         
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        • Beckie76

          Beckie76 Total Gardener

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          @Jiffy, we can have a police officer in the countryside if he has a speedgun attached to his hand! :wallbanging: anything else.....48 hours later an officer might turn up :whistle:
           
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          • Jiffy

            Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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            Lucky you, they don't even turn up here, even reporting some one for breaking the law, with every bit of detail (i could have tolled them the colour of there underwear) they still took 2 years to do something :mad::mute: so if there was some big stuff like the london attck here i wouldn't hold my breath
             
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            • Beckie76

              Beckie76 Total Gardener

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              I do think our police get a really rough deal @Jiffy, there's quite simply not enough of them, however I do agree with what you are saying, if we had a terrorist arrack in our village I think we'd be in trouble, for a start the police station is a good 10 minute drive & even when they got here I'm not sure what they could do! I honestly think it's time for all our police officers to carry guns. We aren't dealing with petty crime anymore these idiots are serious & all I can see is more attacks, there's so many of the bleeders! What a terrible state of affairs, I never thought I'd be in favour of guns, but I've been pushed to the limits by these awful pieces of *h*t (I can't call them humans they don't deserve that label)
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                I've thought for years that every copper should have a side arm.
                Lets face it, if someone was about to shoot into a crowd who would you prefer to have turn up?
                A nice unarmed policeman that has a batton, or one with a gun?

                They cannot do their job effectively these days, (protecting the public), and not be armed.
                We seem to have just two kinds of coppers, those that are unarmed, and those going around with automatic weapons, surely something in between the two is asked for?

                Personally I dont think it would be a bad idea if every polling station had at least one copper in attendance tomorrow, and armed.
                 
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                  Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Jiffy, just say you have a shotgun and you intend shooting the perpetrators, the law will be round very quickly, and you will probably get free accommodation for a couple of nights at least.:blue thumb:
                   
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                  • Jiffy

                    Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                    Our police station is a good 30 minutes away, The last time we had a police officer here (because of break in) we had to give them directions as they couldn't find us :doh:
                     
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                    • "M"

                      "M" Total Gardener

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                      And many "coppers" have thought (for those very same years) "I hope not!" :nonofinger:
                      If they had wanted to be a member of an armed force, they would have joined the armed forces ;)
                      It should also be noted, that whatever 'gadgets' (and I use the term lightly) a Police Officer may carry, those self same 'gadgets' could be - and on occasions are - wrestled from and used against them! So, from a differing point of view: ask 'coppers' if they *want* to be armed?

                      My brothers were all military men; all saw active service. None of them, despite their "training", escaped unscathed when having to put that "training" into action. In practise, it is all so easy: target up! Bang! Target down! Now put flesh and bone into the mix and it is not at all the same as training. :nonofinger:

                      My heart goes out to those people who pulled the trigger recently. They are the ones who will be second doubting themselves; they will be the ones who are put under intense scrutiny and have to justify every split second thought process/justification for what they did! They are the ones who will now see there is a huge different between "target up/target down" and the actual *human* element of blood, bone and sinew. They are the ones who are now, most vulnerable to PTSD. Or, do we not consider that they may even be traumatised by what they have *had* to do in the name of Policing? :dunno:
                      Target "practise" is one thing.
                      Taking a human life, in reality, is quite another!
                      Think about it: we live in a society/culture where taking someone's life is seen as abhorrent, or madness, or perverse - certainly something which screams out for a punishment of some kind or other!
                      So, from where should we recruit these Police Officers - who are comfortable carrying a weapon as a matter of course - who may have to be responsible for blowing out another's brains? :dunno: Could *you* do it? ;)
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        I assume we recruit them from the same kind of people that nearly every other police force in the world recruits theirs.

                        I know for sure target practice is one thing, taking a life is something else, but that is surely where the training lies.
                        I can understand maybe the bobby that wants to wander around chatting and being help full if you ask him the time (1950s), not wanting to be armed, but it's all getting a little bit passed that these days.
                        The thinking is all wrong IMO, and they cannot protect the public anymore, let alone themselves.
                         
                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        There was an independent nationwide poll among the Police asking them if all Officers should be routinely armed and the result was that over 80% voted No.
                        If you want an example of whether or not arming Police Officers will solve the problems of Terrorism and Crime then look to America. where already this year there has been 26,687 gun incidents, 6,566 dead, 12,887 injured, 289 Children killed or injured, 1,364 Teenagers killed or injured, with so far 145 Mass Shootings.
                        The British Police know that arming every Officer will not make the land safer and would probably make it more dangerous to the Public. I've talked to Police Officers in Birmingham, Manchester and Chester and none, not one, has said that being armed is a good idea. They are more in favour of Officers being issued with Tasers should an Officer request to be armed with one.
                        It's a very easy thing to say every Police Officer should be armed but it's not the easy answer.......and the Police know it. I don't want to be pulled over for some minor traffic offence to see, in my rear view mirror, a Police Officer getting out of his car and walking towards me with a gun in his hand. Believe it or not, not every Officer is a good candidate to carry a gun as they, like us, are Human and some, like us, are not mentally equipped to carry and use a firearm. As one amiable armed Police Officer in Manchester told me only last week "there are some colleagues I just wouldn't want to be around if they were armed" What he was "hinting" at was that there there would be a rise in innocent people mistakenly shot by Police in incidents where a Taser or Pepper Spray would keep death or injuries to an absolute minimum. But having said that there are a number of regional Police Forces that have opted to use neither on the grounds of health concerns.
                        As the amiable Police Officer said as he grinned and shrugged his big shoulders, [I called him Sir, as I do with anyone over 6' in height and carrying a loaded Heckler and Kock MP5SF:hate-shocked:] "it's what they, [the Terrorists] want isn't it. And we don't want them to change the way we live, do we?"
                        Me?..........I agree with him.:dunno::coffee:
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          Oh well, if they dont want to be armed I guess that is up to them.

                          Just cant see the point in being cannon,( knife or samuraii sword fodder).
                          Tazers only seem to be any use against drunks, druggies, not someone who wants you dead.

                          Comparing us with America regarding gun crime is a bit silly as "most" people don't possess guns here, and it's not that I mention it as if it will "solve terrorism" just one more step.

                          I can up to a point understand why the copper on the street doesn't want a gun.
                          It's probably down to the fact that if he should shoot anyone, even if they are violent he will be dragged through the courts for the next 5 yrs.
                           
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                          • ARMANDII

                            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                            Polling Stations will be open from 7am to 10pm and there will be over 50,000 of them nation wide. Armed Police have a policy of always operating as a team of at least two and in 4 hour shifts if possible. So you would need a minimum of 6 Police Officers per Polling Station as the Staff are there at least an hour before opening and at least 2 hours after closing..........that's a lot of Armed Police Officers and, obviously, we don't have the resources, so we rely on 24/7 Arm Response Groups in the various Counties etc.:dunno::coffee:
                             
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                            • Phil A

                              Phil A Guest

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                              First thing I thought about if I had been in the situation in London was how to liberate a table leg quickly.

                              I'd feel much better with a table leg in me hands if someone was coming at me with a knife.
                               
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