Operation "Back Breaker"

ok, I've got two years growing under my belt, and the bug has deffo bitten, year one was great, other than pea moth and mildew, year two was not so great due to a freak year, but year three I intend to take the battle back to mother nature, I know if I want to get the best out of my ground I'n going to have to bite the bullet and put some serous work in

the ground seems fertile but very stoney, I've dug up bricks n all sorts in the past two years, but I think its time to give it a proper going over, I'm thinking I should take it one bed at a time, in the past I've dug a little "here", and then a little "there", and I've pretty much worked out I'm waisting alot of effort.

today I went out thinking about sorting the ground ready (or as ready as I can) for the GC onion grow off, this is what I'm facing....





I started digging, its pretty easy going for about a foot deep, but is much more compacted below, there's lots of big stones so I thought about getting them all out, I've got a course mesh that I chucked some of the soil through to see the size it removed.....

its a pound coin on the mesh to show the size, the stones on the glove are the few that went through.



So then I sat down to think about it, there's alot of soil to move, and I want to get the stones out and the corret debth in the beds.

So I'm thinking this....


Shovel all the top soil out of bed "A" and the path to the other side of where I want the path, then build a dry stone wall out of all the blocks I've dug up (and there's a fair few lol) then sieve the soil back into bed "A" and use the stones to make the path.

the rest of the patch can get sorted after completing bed "A" and the path, in smaller sections.

I'm asking what debth I need to dig? in the past I dug a 3 foot deep(at least) hole to sink a 12 foot trampoline inthe middle of the lawn, my topsoil is dark and seems things grow ok, but at about a foot down it turns red and very clay like, and then when you go a little deeper it becomes big blocks of chalk, so I'm wondering if its worth going into this area? or using soil from other parts of the garden to raise the debth up?

There's only a rosemary and thyme plant in the patch at the mo, with a few left over beats, so it can become a building site lol in the next few months.

Many thanks, Plant Potty

Edit...Doh, I forgot the most important question, Bed "A"'s length is set by the boundary of the patch, but what width? 3 foot? something like that?

 

As far as how deep to dig goes, I'd say no more than one spade depth, ie around 1ft. Deeper than that and you'll be bringing nutrient poor heavy subsoil up to the surface. Might be different if you have a drainage problem but I'm guessing you don't because if you did, the Rosemary would be dead.

Looking at your augmented reality pic (that's a posh term for a photo with graphics superimposed ), I'd have a think about the path you're planning. I read in a book by Geoff Hamilton that if you allow less than 2ft width for a path between plants, you may as well not bother because the plants will quickly swamp it. I decided that with my inexperience I knew better than one of the gardening legends, and so I made paths that were much narrower than he'd recommended. Within weeks they were no longer useable as paths, because just as he'd said, the plants had taken over

 

The Rosemary was one of the first things I grew from seed two years ago, I've a second plant out the front 3 times as big, but yes, it seems happy and healthy, just wants moving at some point.

my augmented reality pic (like the posh word) was only in paint, wish I still had Auto Cad on my pc n I'd of done a better job lol, the path was therefore far from scale as when you open it in paint you get a zoomed in pic so lose all scale, A wide path sounds good for a deck chair and beer on hot summer days

I'm not sure about the soil debth that I should dig, one foot sounds the least work so I like that idea, but I've been here since 2002, it was well over grown back then, and soil has been moved around over the years, when I dug the trampoline out I recon 6 inches were spread out over most of it before the turf went down.

I did'nt get much time to play today as I've a new water feature in the form of a cracked 6" mains water pipe (no not in the veg patch before you ask lol), so ended up spending more time than I would have liked on the phone, but the digging I did get done I did'nt hit the red clay or any chalk yet? tho I may have put/dumped alot of soil here in the past, so I'm maybe thinking clear the stones to 18 inches (just so I dont start farming them again) and add back to the soil what it needs....

 

72 views n one reply? guess "Operation Back Breaker" is just Potty n Clueless, dont dare post up in a year your bed is to wide! lmao, why the lack of advice? Ziggy? calling you out, coz I can

 

There's a lot to be said for wide beds. Narrow beds are great when you're just starting out, but as time goes on, a the extra space that a wider bed provides is sometimes a real bonus.

 

For what it's worth PP...I'd dig a couple of spits down...remove as many large stones as possible and then wack in as much muck as you can...i know what i mean if nobody else does

 

Wasn't as simple as that PP, I and other members have been having trouble with the net tonight. Every time I tried to view your thread, all I could see was the top of a couple of pics. Guess the others were having the same problem, it just wouldn't load no matter how many times I refreshed.

 

Right, having seen the thread now, the clay you are finding is called, geologically, "Clay with Flints"

Its the remnants of about a 1000 metres of chalk that has been eroded by weathering ever since the chalk was uplifted by the Alpine Mountain Building Erogeny starting about 40 million years ago.

It contains the 2 per cent of matter that isn't Calcium Carbonate from within the Chalk, and is very fertile.

The red colouring suggests anerobic bacteria as its usually more of a brown colour.

That would suggest a lack of drainage which would be unusual for the chalk substrate as it is both porous and permeable, so it might just be down to the unusual amount of rain we've had this year.

I'm a bit hungover this evening so can't really go into detail, i'll have another look in the morning.

 

While I don't like to disagree, especially as you know more about rocks than I do, I was under the impression that red clay suggests its aerobic, as its the iron in it that's oxidised, whereas it is grey/green/blue and smelly if its anearobic. At least that's what I thought.

 

You're probably right there, I associate iron panning with hard ground & probably dismissed that one without thinking it thru. I'll be better in the morning.

 

I totally agree with John(JWK). The only thing I would add is...raised beds!

 

Well thats even worse then, 3 peeps looked n Zigy tried 89 times ffs , lmao, anyway, Zigs I dont think you should think about the geologically sound stuff, coz I dont think it apllies, why? I'm 46 n Salisbury born n bread, so was my garnny, she played where my garden is why before the estate was built, its Bemerton "Heath", called "Heath" coz thats what it was before they put houses here, but there's been 70 years of landscaping since then, and new plants dropping their leaf mould on "heath land".

Plus like I say I've moved alot of soil around, I dont mean a wheel barow or two, at least six wives worth lmao.

I did get a B in O level geolegy (not spelling) at school, I do know about the rock around me, what I dont know is where and when its been cut into and top soil by Wilts Council, the estate has been here 60 70 years, and then at least two mods, re~brick n stuffz, the red clay is like in only a few spots.....and its not like "slip" just red dencer stuff, but it still readily breaks down with water, so its not clay, though I think three feet down it would be, so maybe you're righrt, just the old clay is taking along time to die lmao.

Anyway, my most inportant questions you nicely side danced, ie "Bed Width" and "Path Width"?, easer than stones lmao

Phil.